Compatable fish?

Tapil

Hey guys Im setting up a new tank here in a few months ((85 gallon OR 125 gallon)) <== im going to compare their prices later

Anyways In my new tank i plan to have:
# (Size)
2 Angelicus Botia Loach (4)
2 Black Kuhlii Loach (5)
2 yo yo loach (5)
9 Lyre tail mollies (3)
4 Lyre tail swords (3)

All of the fish listed above have a medium temp range of 74F which is where the temp will stay.

However i read a few things the other day that has me a bit worried... But im not 100% sure its true. Can anyone confirm my fears/comment on my tankmate choices?

I read:
>"Mollies do not do well with other fish with fancy tails as they fin-nip them..."
I currently have 5 mollies in a 20 gallon and they dont do any nippin besides the "love" nips on the bottom of the females i have - would they take a bite out of my fancy swords?

>"DO NOT USE SALT WITH LOACHES"
I currently use aquarium salt with my tanks, however i hear talk that AS is different from salt? Does this mean my loaches will melt like a slug if i use A.S. salt in my new tank?

Thanks so much guys!
(Yes i know it will take almost a month maybe two to cycle a 125 gallon tank)

aunt kymmie

Correct, do not use salt with loaches. I wouldn't use salt with any tropical fish-we have some other members here who can better explain why salt is not necessary. While your loaches won't melt like slugs it would make life VERY uncomfortable for them.

I do not know much about Mollies other than that they can tolerate (maybe even prefer?) salt.

kitten_penang

want mollies ,want to use salt, drop the loaches from the list and add fishes with scales not all types like salt but they fair better then their scaleless cousins. mollies do nip occasionally some people have success with both species together but not always.i a large tank with heavy foliage will lessen the chances for fin nipping. my danios nipped my angelfish but stay away from my male guppies. ironic yes because danios are naturally born fin nippers but they will go for things with overly long tails like your swordfish.

Tapil

Aww... I was hoping my mollies would work out fine in with the loaches seeing as they would stay near the top and loaches to the bottom.

But i guess they wont do well without their aquarium salt (for the mollies)

Does anyone know if there is an actualy difference in A.S. salt and like saltwater salt?

redchigh

Aquarium salt is completely unneccesary.

People use salt as a disease preventative, but it also ends with fish with a weakened immune system.
Some people also use it as a substitute for a naturally high Kh and Gh which is good for livebearers. (and not for loaches)

Still seems the loaches might not be such a good idea with livebearers...

If it were me, I would replace the livebearers with some asian fishes... Rasboras and barbs come to mind, and shoot for a lower ph around 6.0..

Or stick with the livebearers... If you could maintain the ph at 7.0 you could try the loaches, but it would be a heck of a balancing act.

Best plan would be to go one way or the other. Livebearers would go well with plecos, or horseface loaches, or raphael catfish.. Or stuff from here

kitten_penang

the salt used in sw tanks has more trace minerals and compounds in it versus the normal fw salt. not advisable to use sw salt in a fw tank

Byron

I agree with what's been said so far. Below I will copy the issue concerning salt so you know why this is not recommended by ichthyologists or responsible aquarists.

Before that, some comments on your fish list. Mixing livebearers and soft water fish is not recommended. Livebearers (mollies, swordtails, Platy, guppies) require mineral in their water and thus basic water (pH above 7) that has some degree of hardness. Soft waterfish are the opposite; soft water and slightly acidic (pH below 7). Some of the latter fish can adapt to slightly basic water. This information is included in our fish profiles [second tab from the left in the blue bar at the top, or click on shaded names in posts].

Second, loaches need to be in groups, at least 5-6. As explained in our profiles, they interact a great deal and without companions of the same species will be stressed, leading to health issues.

Here's the info on salt:

Salt is detrimental to freshwater fish and plants in varying degrees. To understand why, we must understand what salt does in water.

Salt makes the water more dense than the same water without salt. The aquarium contains water. The bodies of fish and plant leaves also contain water [just as we do--we are, what is it, 90-some percent water?]. The water in the aquarium and the water in the fish/plant are separated by a semi-permeable layer which is the cell. Water can pass through this cell. When either body of water is more dense, the other less-dense body of water will pass through the membrane to equalize the water on both sides.

Water is constantly passing through the cells of fish by osmosis in an attempt to equate the water inside the fish (which is more dense) with the water in the aquarium. Put another way, the aquarium water is diluting the fish's body water until they are equal. Freshwater fish regularly excrete this water through respiration and urination. This is the issue behind pH differences as well as salt and other substances. It increases the fish's work--the kidney is used in the case of salt--which also increases the fish's stress in order to maintain their internal stability. Also, the fish tends to produce more mucus especially in the gills; the reason now seems to be due to the irritant property of salt--the fish is trying to get away from it.

I have an interesting measurement for fish. Dr. Stanley Weitzman, who is Emeritus Research Scientist at the Department of Ichthyology of the Smithsonian Institute in Washington and an acknowledged authority on characoid fishes, writes that 100 ppm of salt is the maximum for characins, and there are several species that show considerable stress leading to death at 60 ppm. 100 ppm is equal to .38 of one gram of salt per gallon of water. One level teaspoon holds six grams of salt. You mention 1 to 3 teaspoons per gallon. If you have characins in this tank, that would be 6 to 18 grams per gallon, which is at minimum 15 times the amount they tolerate. Livebearers have a higher tolerance (mollies exist in brackish water) so the salt may be safe for them.

Plants: when salt is added to the aquarium water, the water inside the plant cells is less dense so it escapes through the cells. The result is that the plant literally dries out, and will wilt. I've so far been unable to find a measurement of how much salt will be detrimental to plants; all authorities I have found do note that some species are more sensitive than others, and all recommend no salt in planted aquaria.

Now you know why I never recommend salt.

Tapil

Thanks so much guys, you have been verry informative.

I will just leave my livebears in their current tank and just have a loach only tank and a livebearer only tank.

In the end everyone is happy - I get all the fishes i wanted and they all get their (salt/saltless tanks) each fish needs to be a happy swimmer

kitten_penang

lol is that bill clinton ???

bigehugedome

If I had a 125 gallon I would probly get a large group of clown loaches and make a nice SE Asian biotope. They would have so much fun! Thats my dream at least!