03-03-2010, 10:43 PM
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#11 | | | Diagnosis Ich / Ick
Typical behaviours of clinically infected fish include: - Anorexia (loss of appetite, refusing all food, with consequential wasting)
- Rapid breathing
- Hiding abnormally/ not schooling
- Resting on the bottom
- Flashing
- Rubbing and scratching against objects
A subclinically infected fish will not show any of these signs. For example, a healthy fish with a newly attached trophozoite will not yet have clinical disease. The trophozoite will not become visible to the naked eye until it has fed on the fish and grown to one or two millimetres. A trophozoite attached to the gills usually is not readily seen. A subclinically infected fish may initially only have a single trophozoite. [edit] Skin
Visible Ich lesions are usually seen as one or several characteristic white spots on the body or fins of the fish. The white spots are single cells called trophozoites or trophonts, which feed on the tissues of the host and may grow to 1 mm in diameter. A smear should show ciliates if white spot is present.
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03-04-2010, 02:44 AM
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#13 | | |
Your tap water might contain nitrates, which would explain the relatively high nitrate reading despite your tank not being cycled yet.
Honestly, with your pH being so high and your hard water, I honestly don't think you're going to have much success in keeping soft water species unless you do something to soften your water and drop the pH (such as buying an RO machine and using a mix of RO and tap water in your tanks). That can be expensive and stressful, so I think a better option would be stocking your tank around your water parameters rather than trying to adjust your parameters to suit your fish. Barbs, tetras, angelfish, etc. are all softwater species. The two most common setups for harder water are livebearers (like your mollies) and African rift lake cichlids. Of the two, livebearers are going to be simpler as they aren't very demanding. This is what I was referring to with "rethinking your stocking." Schooling fish need to be kept in appropriate sized schools but more importantly, the softwater fish aren't going to do well in your water (as evidenced by the angels already dying).
To put it bluntly, cycling a tank full of fish that have ich isn't going to be easy and there's no advice that can be given that's going to guarantee the survival of all of your fish at this point. High temperatures and salt can both be used to combat ich but, as Austin pointed out, both do add to the stress level of your fish, something compounded by the cycling process. I don't think the salt is really worth it since you're going to be doing water changes quite often in this cycling tank. Instead, I'd go by heat alone; increase the tank temperature (slowly!) to 84 or so and keep an eye on your water parameters, doing water changes whenever ammonia or nitrite hits 0.50 ppm.
Just hang in there, keep your water quality in tip-top shape and keep us posted. Good luck!
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03-04-2010, 03:31 AM
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#15 | | |
Angelfish are surviving, they perhaps are not thriving or you would have many ,many ,baby angelfish in my opinion.
Many fish can adapt to water parameters that may or may not be ideal so long as those parameters remain stable and are not too far from suggested pH,temp,Kh,Gh recommended for that species due in large part to breeders who have over time,, managed to breed strains that have slowly adapted to these slightly different waters.
Is not going to work always for all species ,or different strains of same species. Always best in my view,,to keep as a general rule, softwater fish in soft water, and hardwater fish in hard water.
There will ALWAYS be those who say,,, I keep my Betta in a unfiltered ,unheated vase,I keep my Goldfish in a two gallon bowl,or I keep my softwater fish in liquid rock. The longterm results are fairly predictable.
Sick fish,low birth rates should they spawn,deformities in young fish,internal organ failures,and increased suceptibility to disease and or bacterial pathogens along with shortened lifespan. Doesn't make fish keeping very enjoyable and I would ask ,,what is the point?
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03-04-2010, 03:34 AM
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#16 | | |
Interesting point... but I do hope my angelfish aren't suffering like those bettas in 1/2 gallon unfiltered unheated bowls.
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03-04-2010, 03:52 AM
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#17 | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by iamntbatman  Your tap water might contain nitrates, which would explain the relatively high nitrate reading despite your tank not being cycled yet.
Honestly, with your pH being so high and your hard water, I honestly don't think you're going to have much success in keeping soft water species unless you do something to soften your water and drop the pH (such as buying an RO machine and using a mix of RO and tap water in your tanks). That can be expensive and stressful, so I think a better option would be stocking your tank around your water parameters rather than trying to adjust your parameters to suit your fish. Barbs, tetras, angelfish, etc. are all softwater species. The two most common setups for harder water are livebearers (like your mollies) and African rift lake cichlids. Of the two, livebearers are going to be simpler as they aren't very demanding. This is what I was referring to with "rethinking your stocking." Schooling fish need to be kept in appropriate sized schools but more importantly, the softwater fish aren't going to do well in your water (as evidenced by the angels already dying).
To put it bluntly, cycling a tank full of fish that have ich isn't going to be easy and there's no advice that can be given that's going to guarantee the survival of all of your fish at this point. High temperatures and salt can both be used to combat ich but, as Austin pointed out, both do add to the stress level of your fish, something compounded by the cycling process. I don't think the salt is really worth it since you're going to be doing water changes quite often in this cycling tank. Instead, I'd go by heat alone; increase the tank temperature (slowly!) to 84 or so and keep an eye on your water parameters, doing water changes whenever ammonia or nitrite hits 0.50 ppm.
Just hang in there, keep your water quality in tip-top shape and keep us posted. Good luck! |
+one. Would also maybe add an airstone to help provide oxygen. At higher temps,there is less oxygen in the water and airstone would help in this regard.
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03-04-2010, 04:59 AM
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#18 | | | maybe it is the hardwater.
Simple , plain, blunt honesty sometimes is the best answer. Looks like one by one, these fish are starting to do head stands. seeing a lot of panting. water is only at 78 * now. Heater is on. throughout day from early am yesterday to now 6 am of next day change of 4 * (approx 24 hrs) . no carbon filter in. used the dechlorinator, the stress zyme, the PH treatments, a couple of ick curing tablets. and things just keep going bad and not better. maybe it is the hardwater. it doesn't seem like the ph came down much if any based on the test strips.
what makes them stand on their heads??? can't find an answer online
This web site / forum is a wonderful gift that keeps on giving to so many people!! Thanks to everyone for their concern and advice and support.
Last edited by LivinNandbyHim; 03-04-2010 at 05:01 AM..
Reason: clarify a point of time
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