Questions about heaters - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 26 Old 03-02-2013, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Still thinking about what I will do, thinking that I will go with the Hydro inline heater with a second heater in the tank for a back up. On my larger tanks I have ran with one heater in the past, but the thought of the extra security in case something goes wrong is reassuring.

Sookielee good to hear that the heater is working well for you, thanks for the input.
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post #12 of 26 Old 03-02-2013, 12:28 PM
Time out.

The OP has a 72g tank. It seems to me that two canister filters on anything less than say a 125g is way over the top (and even then one would do, especially if planted). I think some folks here with large heavily planted tanks simply use a sponge filter for modest filtration and water circulation.

On the other hand, two in-line heaters with one canister would be a bad idea. As someone pointed out, what/if when there's some problem with the filter that requires parts or a replacement that could take days. The tank would be okay w/o the filter, but not a heater. For redundancy sake, if there was one in-line heater, another should be in the tank to better ensure continuous operation.

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post #13 of 26 Old 03-02-2013, 12:42 PM
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The OP has a 72g tank. It seems to me that two canister filters on anything less than say a 125g is way over the top
Seems to me to work beautifully, but we all have different expectations of our systems, and some ask more of them than others. It also seems to me that one would want to take into consideration the size of the filters before making such a judgement.

125 - BGK, chanchito cichlid, pictus cats, silver dollars, palmas bichir
125 - cichlids (severums, bolivian rams, chocolate), rainbows ( turquoise, red), loaches (angelicus, zebra, kuhli and horseface), plecos (BN, RL and clown), denison barbs, tiretrack eel, pearl gouramis, betta
90 - Congo tetras, african knife, upside down cats, spotted ctenopoma, kribensis, delhezzi bichir
2.5 - betta
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post #14 of 26 Old 03-03-2013, 09:57 AM
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Seems to me to work beautifully, but we all have different expectations of our systems, and some ask more of them than others. It also seems to me that one would want to take into consideration the size of the filters before making such a judgement.
But as you wrote in another thread, you have two canisters and each is rated for your tank size and setup like a whirlpool. I think far too many buy into the myth that we need 4x to 10x the tank size in filter flow gallons per hour (GPH). It has always seemed to me that if we can't filter/purify the water by filtering every drop 2x-4x times per hour, something must be wrong and blasting more water through really won't solve the problem.
I also have trouble with the obsession that there needs to be so much flow so there is never any mulm on the substrate. This is really counter productive as mulm feeds the substrate organisms that feed the plants and creates the very best bio-filter. And how much sense does it make to remove this organic material only to compensate by adding bottled fertilizer?
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, are the fish. Many/most of our fish were not raised in raging rivers, but rather tanks or ponds. Having to swim hard just to stay still must be difficult for many fish.

Proponents of over filter flow say 'but my water is crystal clear'. But then my water is crystal clear and my flow rate is only about 2x. Go figure.

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post #15 of 26 Old 03-03-2013, 10:20 AM
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You made your judgement BEFORE I said anything in the other thread, so I don't see how that has any bearing on anything. Furthermore, regardless of the size of the filters on MY tanks, people can run 2 smaller filters. As MANY do.

Yeah, I should probably expand the breadth of the fish I keep so that I can get a better understanding on the matter.

125 - BGK, chanchito cichlid, pictus cats, silver dollars, palmas bichir
125 - cichlids (severums, bolivian rams, chocolate), rainbows ( turquoise, red), loaches (angelicus, zebra, kuhli and horseface), plecos (BN, RL and clown), denison barbs, tiretrack eel, pearl gouramis, betta
90 - Congo tetras, african knife, upside down cats, spotted ctenopoma, kribensis, delhezzi bichir
2.5 - betta
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post #16 of 26 Old 03-03-2013, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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Just for clarification on what I am planning for my 72 gallon I will be setting up one canister filter, have decided on the Rena (fits well within my budget and the reviews I have read in the filter are favorable) For the heater I will be doing one inline heater with the filter and will have a second heater that will be placed into the tank that will act as a backup heater in case something malfunctions with the inline heater. With I myself have no plans of doing two filters on this tank since with one filter, plants and weekly water changes every thing will be kept in check. When I was running my 50 gallon long I actually had two sponge filters that I ran on that tank along with it being planted. Numbers kept in check with this set up.
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post #17 of 26 Old 03-03-2013, 01:15 PM
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I have 4 XP filters - they are terrific. You'll be very happy.

I also love my sunsuns, of which I have 4 as well. I wont be buying another XP for my second 125, in favor of the sunsuns.

125 - BGK, chanchito cichlid, pictus cats, silver dollars, palmas bichir
125 - cichlids (severums, bolivian rams, chocolate), rainbows ( turquoise, red), loaches (angelicus, zebra, kuhli and horseface), plecos (BN, RL and clown), denison barbs, tiretrack eel, pearl gouramis, betta
90 - Congo tetras, african knife, upside down cats, spotted ctenopoma, kribensis, delhezzi bichir
2.5 - betta
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post #18 of 26 Old 03-03-2013, 04:15 PM
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You made your judgement BEFORE I said anything in the other thread, so I don't see how that has any bearing on anything. Furthermore, regardless of the size of the filters on MY tanks, people can run 2 smaller filters. As MANY do.

Yeah, I should probably expand the breadth of the fish I keep so that I can get a better understanding on the matter.
I'm sorry if I upset you. My judgement was based on the fact that there are so many that run multiple filters and or powerheads in the belief that 'more' water flow means more or better filtration/purification. It just so happens it was also accurate in your case as your later post confirmed.

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post #19 of 26 Old 03-03-2013, 05:58 PM
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I'm sorry if I upset you. My judgement was based on the fact that there are so many that run multiple filters and or powerheads in the belief that 'more' water flow means more or better filtration/purification. It just so happens it was also accurate in your case as your later post confirmed.
Oh, it sounded as though it was based on your experience running such setups on such large tanks. You say 2 filters on a 125 is unnecessary? Everyone I know with a 6 foot tank runs multiple filters, or they run sumps. Planted or not. Does that mean that everyone with a 6 foot tank does this? of course not - I can't believe I even have to say that.

I can't understand how one could have read my post and walked away with "more water flow is better filtration." I listed my reasons for why I run my tanks the way I do - that was not one of them.

Since you are referring to and discussing my post in another thread, here it is:

Quote:
I run 2 canisters on my larger tanks - 55 and up. Each one is capable of filtering the tank on their own. Some will say that that is unnecessary, and they would be correct....from a water quality standpoint. However, I ask more of my filtration systems than merely maintaining water quality. My filtration systems also have to provide a circular flow in the tank, which is achieved by setting them up in opposition to one another. One pushes water along the front of the tank towards the seconds intake, and the second pushes water back along the back of the tank, towards the first's intake. In my experience the fish prefer such circulation. The other advantage of this is waste collection. Since setting up my tanks this way, I never see waste on the sand - keeps the tanks spotless. Another benefit, which boxercrazy mentioned, is that the filters don't need to be cleaned very often. The smaller the system, the more often it needs to be cleaned. I don't clean mine more than twice a year. And lastly, is redundancy, though that's really an afterthought for me. People say to run 2 heaters, that way in case one fails there is a backup. I don't see how this principle does not extend to filters.

Is a 2 canister setup ideal for every tank? No, of course not. Can many tanks benefit from such a setup? Yes, absolutely. It's up to each fish keeper to determine what's best for them, based on their needs and what they want to get out of it.

125 - BGK, chanchito cichlid, pictus cats, silver dollars, palmas bichir
125 - cichlids (severums, bolivian rams, chocolate), rainbows ( turquoise, red), loaches (angelicus, zebra, kuhli and horseface), plecos (BN, RL and clown), denison barbs, tiretrack eel, pearl gouramis, betta
90 - Congo tetras, african knife, upside down cats, spotted ctenopoma, kribensis, delhezzi bichir
2.5 - betta
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post #20 of 26 Old 03-03-2013, 08:50 PM
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Oh, it sounded as though it was based on your experience running such setups on such large tanks. You say 2 filters on a 125 is unnecessary? Everyone I know with a 6 foot tank runs multiple filters, or they run sumps. Planted or not. Does that mean that everyone with a 6 foot tank does this? of course not - I can't believe I even have to say that.

I can't understand how one could have read my post and walked away with "more water flow is better filtration." I listed my reasons for why I run my tanks the way I do - that was not one of them.

Since you are referring to and discussing my post in another thread, here it is:
I didn't write that at all - here's exactly what I wrote:
"The OP has a 72g tank. It seems to me that two canister filters on anything less than say a 125g is way over the top (and even then one would do, especially if planted)."

Typically, one canister filter rated for the tank size is plenty...more than enough since many/most can't be easily throttled back to less flow. Actually, there are many with large heavily planted tanks that merely use a sponge filter. So if that works, why would we need two canister filters, each rated for the tank size?

If you're happy with the overkill it's your choice and that's fine, but I feel we do new inexperienced members a disservice making recommendations (directly or by example) for unnecessary equipment.

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