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filtration for 180g planted

This is a discussion on filtration for 180g planted within the Freshwater Aquarium Equipment forums, part of the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium category; --> Yea they're a lil pricier sometimes (dep where you shop) but like they say you get what you pay for and a canister is ...

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filtration for 180g planted
Old 01-11-2010, 08:11 PM   #11
 
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Yea they're a lil pricier sometimes (dep where you shop) but like they say you get what you pay for and a canister is one of THE last things i'd want busting on my tank lol at this tank size (cansister size ) you're looking at about $250

Personally if not Eheim, I'd buy Cascade Cascade Canister Filters, Canister Filters | Pet Solutions

For media I always use the Eheim Ehfisubstrat Pro (also fits in any non Eheim filer/ Internal filters etc) and various sizes sponges from cores(sp?) to fine ones.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:44 AM   #12
 
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I like Marineland filters. The Magnum Pro is a great canister. The price is right, plus it has a Bio-wheel for the output, which greatly increases the biological filtration capacity. You could almost buy three of them for the price of a single Eheim Pro II 2128.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:40 PM   #13
 
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Biological filtration beyond what will occur naturally is probably detrimental in a planted aquarium. I explain this a bit in another post http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...um-part-34858/. I would recommend a good canister, without any form of chemical filtration. Eheim certainly have a reputation for lasting years. Mine have been running non-stop for over 12 years with no issues or problems, something I think is pretty good these days. I also have a Rena XP3 but not long enough to say how it compares in durability; it seems to do the job intended well enough.

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Old 01-13-2010, 03:10 AM   #14
 
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I see where you're coming from, but in a planted tank with a pH above 7.0 wouldn't it be better to have more biological filtration? Ammonium exists as ammonia in alkaline water, and can't be used directly by plants.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:00 AM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamntbatman View Post
I see where you're coming from, but in a planted tank with a pH above 7.0 wouldn't it be better to have more biological filtration? Ammonium exists as ammonia in alkaline water, and can't be used directly by plants.

i would like to know the answer to this as well. I would rather have some biological in a canister, just in case. I dont stock heavily and would rather be on the safe side.

Byron: in your planted tanks do you use any biogical media in you filters?
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Old 01-13-2010, 09:14 AM   #16
 
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I'd use something like Eheim Substrate pro (Ehfisubstrat Pro, Ehiem Filter Media | Pet Solutions) or something comparable from other brands. I add that to any and all filters (Canister, Internals). Has worked well for me over the yrs.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:13 PM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by iamntbatman View Post
I see where you're coming from, but in a planted tank with a pH above 7.0 wouldn't it be better to have more biological filtration? Ammonium exists as ammonia in alkaline water, and can't be used directly by plants.
From my research I understand that while plants do not use ammonia directly they do use it indirectly and faster generally than the bacteria. Some time back I went into detail about this aspect, but it will take longer to find it than type it again, so here goes.

Plants and algae must use ammonium to produce their proteins, so they have developed methods of getting ammonium. In basic/alkaline water, plants rapidly detoxify ammonia through either of two methods. First, as ammonia enters the plant cell by diffusion, it can combine with a hydrogen ion and convert to ammonium which can be stored in the cells for use by the plant as the preferred form of nitrogen. Second, plants can use the ammonia to synthesize proteins immediately; ammonia is combined with carbohydrates to form animno acids.

Plants compete with nitrifying bacteria for the ammonia simply because it is easier for plants to use ammonia as mentioned above than it is for them to use nitrates which they are forced to do if nitrifying bacteria use most of the ammonia. All things being equal, as for example in an aquarium with no filter (aside from the plants), ammonia will be zero because the plants use it first and the nitrosomonas use what they can before the plants, which is minimal. Adding specific biological filtering will upset this natural process. Both Diana Walstad and Peter Hiscock write at length about the detrimental effect on plant growth by biological filtration beyond what will normally occur in any aquarium, and Dr. Coletti has written that in a planted tank there is more biological filtration occurring through the plants than in any filter.

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Old 01-13-2010, 12:36 PM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by iceprizm View Post
i would like to know the answer to this as well. I would rather have some biological in a canister, just in case. I dont stock heavily and would rather be on the safe side.

Byron: in your planted tanks do you use any biogical media in you filters?
My previous post answered the original question, so I'll respond to your subsequent questions here.

If you stock lightly there is even less need for filtration in a planted tank. I stock heavily, at least I think so, and have not encountered any problems that I can discern in 15 years. As I've written elsewhere, I've used this approach to tanks long before I ever knew the reasons it worked.

I have one canister on each large tank. They are Eheims on two and Rena ZP3 on one, so basically the same type of filters. In the first basket I have ceramic disks, in the second I use Fluval's Bio Max, and then there are the pads. Obviously all media acts as a biological filter, just as the plant leaves, tank walls, wood and rocks--any surface under water that is in contact with moving water bringing oxygen will support a colony of bacteria.

My initial point was that you not add "extra" biological filtration because in my opinion based upon my research and experience it is completely unnecessary for the fish, and possibly detrimental to the plants. We all know that one can have well-balanced and very healthy planted aquaria with no filter (by which I mean equipment) at all. For more than a hundred years this worked. The fish stock has to be balanced with the plants. I have more fish than the natural balance, so I use a canister to circulate the water and as "insurance" I suppose.

Another example of how this works is in a new tank. If the new tank is well planted, you can add a considerable load of fish on the first day and there will be no cycling issues whatsoever. The plants use the ammonia/ammonium before the nitrosomonas bacteria even have the time to become established. If this wasn't the case, the fish would be dead. And while I do not normally "push my luck" by doing this [I don't overload new tanks for a few days], once back in 1997 I had reason to do this.

The fish in my 115g were very lethargic and I had been losing fish regularly over a period of weeks and could not discern the cause. It turned out to be a case of some (unknown) toxic substance in one (or perhaps more) of the large chunks of wood in the tank. Anyway, I had to disinfect the tank completely to remove all trace of the toxin. In one day, I tore the tank down and re-set it. The 125+ fish were moved into my spare 33g, the filter was cleaned and all new media inserted, the gravel was thoroughly washed bucket by bucket in hot water and replaced, the plants were washed in warm water as best as I could, all wood was removed, and the lace rocks were scrubbed with a brush in a sink of very hot water. Everything (except no wood) was put back, tank filled, NovAqua added to de-clorinate, and all 125+ fish netted back, all within 12 hours. The only bacteria that could possibly have survived would be whatever was on the plant leaves that I didn't wash off. I had zero ammonia and nitrite and not one fish loss or even a sign of stress aside from the ordeal they had gone through. If the plants didn't use all that ammonia I certainly don't know what did.

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Old 01-13-2010, 04:53 PM   #19
 
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So, in alkaline water, plants can use ammonia but it requires additional resources (and an additional step in the metabolic chain) to accomplish. Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:53 PM   #20
 
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ok here was my plan for stting up my 180.
i was going to have substrate, plants, canister all running. then i was going to take a HOB from my established 55g and put it on the 180 and i was going to add my fish.

from what i gather with plants there would be no need to add an established filter. is this correct?
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