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Betta died, And fear I'll lose my angel fish Please help?

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Betta died, And fear I'll lose my angel fish Please help?
Old 02-06-2010, 11:39 AM   #11
 
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I didnt see it mentioned anywhere, but that tank is WAY to small for Angelfish. They require a minimum of a 30 gallon aquarium. If you try to keep them in a 10 gallon tank its going to cause them all kinds of health problems. They are also sensitive fish that require soft water. I suggest also getting a test kit for measuring you Alkalinity. Im afraid your other angel probably will not make it, and even if it does, it needs a larger tank.
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:54 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by Mean Harri View Post
Water contains natural mineral such as calcium which acts as a buffer. As fish waste and food decay it starts to acidify the water. The buffers in the water, known as KH absorb the acids maintaining the PH level. As they are used the Ph will drop and/or fluctuate which is bad for the fish. Most fish are acclimated to higher ph levels found in our drinking water. What you need to be careful of, such as using distilled water, is many of the mineral are removed in the distillation process. Such is the case with RO water. And using distilled or RO water only should not be done as they contain virtually nothing in the water. The water is stripped. There are chemicals that are added to bring the required KH, GH, and PH to where one wants them for their tank. RO is a must really in salt water tanks. But RO units can be costly. Here is an option:
Tap Water Filter - API
This filtered water can be added with conditioned tap water. You play with the ratio until you reach the Ph level you want. it could be 1:1 or 2 of tap water to 1 of filtered. All depends on the individuals source of tap water. it's cheaper and it does work. I used one years ago.

I provide that filter water mixed with tap water as an option because most drinking water from the tap already contains the minerals needed in the water for aquariums.
Thanks for these links Harri, they are helping, yet they are alot to take in for someone who has NO CLUE what they are doing.. So I'm learning a lesson... and will always advocate for anyone that wants to have an aquarium, to LEARN before starting! When I lived in Fl. and had that tank.. I must have had a guardian fish angel watching over that tank, because it was all so simple!!! *duh*
I raced to town, and bought tablets that were to quickly reduce the ammonia levels.. ( I ran into Walmart and scanned the shelves of fish supplies and saw it) I was rather upset with the local pet store, because I felt like if the guy hadn't told me that I didn't NEED A TEST KIT.. that I would have had a clue and known that things were going terribly wrong! As I left Walmart, I decided to go to the pet store and let them know I had 2 DEAD Angel Fish, and that I was rather unhappy that they told me I didn't need the test kit, and that the questions I asked about what I should and shouldnt' do, plus if my equipment was right. To my suprise, they stated they were sorry and that they would replace my Angel fish. Then told me to go ahead and use the ammonia decreasing tablet right away, gave me two test strips and then said to do one before the ammonia tablet dissoved, and one after it had dissolved and call them.
I did so.. Although I had put the ammonia tablet in FIRST to attempt to save the remaining fish, and then quickly did the test strip. I called the guy with the results. The man asked me what colors they were. I told him the 1st strip was yellow/green then three sort of turquoise color... and the 2nd strip was pink/dk teal green / very pale light blue / then 3 purple.. This didn't seem to help him give any answers, as his comment was just like "Hmmmm*
So basically I know no more. I asked him if the filter was possibly not sufficient enough. (It is a Whisper 5-10 gal filter) He stated that it may possibly not be. I told him I have a 10-30 gal Whisper filter system, and he told me to try putting it on there, and that this will probably do it. *skeptical look* Somehow? I don't feel secure with these "answers".. I trust all of you FAR MORE!
This person told me that he personally didn't like the Whisper filters. SO... What are your opinions on this? The 10-30 gal Whisper filter seemed to be too large for the little 10 gal tank, and I've been reading the info. you sent me Mean Harri, and am wondering if I shouldn't go purchase a regular outside the tank filter.. the kind with the tube..
The neons (little whack jobs that they are) are still hauling around the tank like bats outta hell, and seem to be just fine.. The pleco seems ok.
I have more questions, but will put them together, and post them in a less confusing manner. I'm kind of all over the place right now. Sorry.
Oh.. and the water info. was much help. re: the RO and distilled water, vs. tap water. Thats another thing that I ASKED this guy at pet store BEFORE buying spring water and filling RO bottles of water! I was trying to do the BEST THING..and he told me that this was just fine. *ummmmm yeah right*
Soooo My knowledge will now come from here.. I had been frantically posting questions in google throughout the last 4 days, and it didn't hit me til this a.m to see if I could find a chat or forum that could give me the right answers.

Thank you again for any and all help. I appreciate it.

K<~~has alot to learn.... *sigh*
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:31 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by n1zjd View Post
I didnt see it mentioned anywhere, but that tank is WAY to small for Angelfish. They require a minimum of a 30 gallon aquarium. If you try to keep them in a 10 gallon tank its going to cause them all kinds of health problems. They are also sensitive fish that require soft water. I suggest also getting a test kit for measuring you Alkalinity. Im afraid your other angel probably will not make it, and even if it does, it needs a larger tank.

Hi Mike..
Our posts must have "crossed in cyber space" Thank you for letting me know this. I had no idea.. How many fish are acceptable for a 10 gal tank? And what kind are best? I have another betta, but he is presently in a bowl on his own and will stay PUT til my tank is ready!
So now I will just ask the pet store to replace the angel fish with something else when it's time. I had thought I read that two small angels were ok in a 10 gal. But that was well before I found this forum!
I will get the test kit for measuring Alkalinity.. thank you.. Is there a site online that one can order these items at decent price? We're in a bit of a remote area, and there's little to offer out here in Sedona, Az.

K<~~chose to set up a aquarium after remembering over 20 yrs ago, the hours at night that I used to lay in beanbag chair on floor, with lights out, just watching the fish. Rather relaxing. Figured it would give me a sense of STRESS RELIEF.. and now?? lol *shakes head* here I am... ohhhhhhh boy.....
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:31 PM   #14
 
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don't despair, once you are on your way, they are great stress relief. that's what got me into it, while i was in the military :)

It is my experience that angelfish like a lot of vertical space. Check out my aquarium 35gal medium community. They seem to love it.
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:50 PM   #15
 
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Well, here's a few irrelevant things:

A 10 gallon tank isn't large enough to house angelfish. I have some angelfish who wouldn't even fit in a 10 gallon tank. They'd be too tall. If you plan to keep smaller ones in there, you'll eventually need to buy a taller tank. :/ If you want them to stay healthy.

The spring water you're using seems un-necessary and a waste of money. As long as you use water conditioner with tap water you should be fine. Unless you live somewhere with bad tap water.


I just skimmed what you said, but I think the others who posted above have it right. Sounds like you added too many fish at once. You have to give the bacteria in the tank time to reproduce to handle the amount of fish.

:( I'm sorry about your fish. Changing the water lots will probably help with the water quality... and get you through the ammonia spiking... If it smells it sounds like the water was let go too long as well... The water shouldn't really smell bad unless the tank is pretty polluted....
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Old 02-06-2010, 09:01 PM   #16
 
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Here is a place, I often buy from....wateradditives

The API Freshwater Master Kit is what you want. They have it for $21. You might find it for a couple dollars less somewhere else.

All that is left in the tank, is the neons and some type of algae eater? Do you know what type of algae eater you have?
I think for now, I would consider the tank stocked. Until you have the test kit, I would do daily 25% water changes using dechlorinated tap water.

I would go with the larger filter, as long as the fish do not look like they are bothered by the current. Over filtration is always better, than not enough. Not sure how much you have read up on the aquarium cycle. You will want some type of media in the filter for bacteria to grow on. A sponge will work. You will leave it in the filter at all times. Only rinse in removed tank water, when very dirty. This will help your tank hold a cycle, once you get it started.

Last edited by Twistersmom; 02-06-2010 at 09:05 PM..
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:23 AM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by cbirk View Post
don't despair, once you are on your way, they are great stress relief. that's what got me into it, while i was in the military :)

It is my experience that angelfish like a lot of vertical space. Check out my aquarium 35gal medium community. They seem to love it.

Thanks cbirk, I appreciate your words, and am sure once I get everything under control, it will all be good.. *fingers crossed*

At least I know to leave the Angel Fish until I am educated far more.. and mayyyybe in the future? I will graduate to a larger aquarium!

K<~~looking forward to knowing that tank is OK!
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:35 AM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by Austin View Post
Well, here's a few irrelevant things:

A 10 gallon tank isn't large enough to house angelfish. I have some angelfish who wouldn't even fit in a 10 gallon tank. They'd be too tall. If you plan to keep smaller ones in there, you'll eventually need to buy a taller tank. :/ If you want them to stay healthy.

The spring water you're using seems un-necessary and a waste of money. As long as you use water conditioner with tap water you should be fine. Unless you live somewhere with bad tap water.


I just skimmed what you said, but I think the others who posted above have it right. Sounds like you added too many fish at once. You have to give the bacteria in the tank time to reproduce to handle the amount of fish.

:( I'm sorry about your fish. Changing the water lots will probably help with the water quality... and get you through the ammonia spiking... If it smells it sounds like the water was let go too long as well... The water shouldn't really smell bad unless the tank is pretty polluted....
Yup! I've learned this now, re: the spring water, so much for spending a little more, and thinking I was doing the right thing. I have just changed about 35% of the water and used tap water, (treated of course...) Made sure the temps were similar, and am crossing fingers that little by little I will get there.
So far the 3 little "glo fish" are doing ok, just go go go ..
And yup, the water smells... So hopefully this water change will help it more.. *yeeeesh* coz it's in my bedroom! *ewwwww*

K<~~knows her boxers will be blaming the fish from now on for "odors"
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:52 AM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Twistersmom View Post
Here is a place, I often buy from....wateradditives

The API Freshwater Master Kit is what you want. They have it for $21. You might find it for a couple dollars less somewhere else.

All that is left in the tank, is the neons and some type of algae eater? Do you know what type of algae eater you have?
I think for now, I would consider the tank stocked. Until you have the test kit, I would do daily 25% water changes using dechlorinated tap water.

I would go with the larger filter, as long as the fish do not look like they are bothered by the current. Over filtration is always better, than not enough. Not sure how much you have read up on the aquarium cycle. You will want some type of media in the filter for bacteria to grow on. A sponge will work. You will leave it in the filter at all times. Only rinse in removed tank water, when very dirty. This will help your tank hold a cycle, once you get it started.
*AH*! I think I goofed when I said "neons".. because what I think? they are, is glo fish. Real bright orange and yellow. And there are 3 of them. The algae eater is a plecostamus SP??? And I kinda wonder if the algae tablet that the same guy at this pet center sold me, may have been a bad idea? The reason he sold them to me, was because I asked him since a pleco eats algae, does that mean he has nothing to eat yet since my tank was only days old. I only put in a 1/2 of one that night, then put in the other half the next night.. Am thinking that was NOT a good thing?
And thanks TwistersMom, I did put the larger filter in right away.
I'm a bit confused about this sponge media.. Is it actually just that? A sponge? A certain kind? And where do I put it in the whisper filter? There's the plastic filter part in front, then the charcoal one is behind it.. So where would this "sponge" go? I'm sorry I'm so dense with this, but sooo much of this is just foreign to me!
And I appreciate your input.. I am definitely not going to put ANY fish in my aquarium until I am sure that all is good.. And then? I will want to know what I can put in there!
I am anxious to know more about this "Sponge"...

K<~~~being a sponge herself.. soaking up all the info.
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Old 02-07-2010, 08:55 AM   #20
 
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The algae eater does need a source of food. I often feed mine algae tablets, the problem comes into play, with new tank setups. A new and cycling tank, its is recommend to feed fish sparingly. Any uneaten food/fish waste produced, will cause ammonia/nitrite to spike at an even quicker level.
Once you have the test kit, this will help you determine if it is safe to feed the fish. If you are getting zero or low readings for ammonia/nitrite, it should be safe to feed them.

Another note, here is some info on the algae eater. http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/p.../common-pleco/ As you can see, this fish is also not a good pick for a 10 gal tank. They do not grow extremely fast, so he should be fine for a while. I am sure once you get this tank all squared away, you will be ready for that next big tank, to house the pleco.

I don't have a Whisper filter, but it sounds like it does not have a biological section. IMO, the biological section is even more important than the filtration section. The filter is the area that most of you good cycle bacteria grows, that will help your tank establish and hold a cycled tank. Once the tank is cycled, you should always get a zero reading for ammonia/nitrite, as long as you preform your weekly partial water changes with gravel cleanings.

I was trying to find some biological media that would work in your filter.....
https://www.petsolutions.com/Default...temID=15511370
https://www.petsolutions.com/Default...temID=79277104

Notice the Bio-filter media. (not sure if any of the sizes are what your filter takes) It includes a blue sponge/pad, that is the biological section. This is the area, that you would not want to over clean. Wash in only old/removed tank water. (should never need replaced, unless falling apart) Washing in chlorine, would kill the needed bacteria.

There are many makers for different type aquarium sponges. AquaClear Filters have sponge inserts for their filters. You can buy/use any brand sponge and cut it, if need be, to fit inside your filter. Most people, including myself, do not run/use carbon in their filter. so, if you want to remove this section to make room for a sponge, that would be fine. ( I would move the plastic media section to the back, to trap most of the dirt, before getting to the sponge.

The other 'rock looking" biological section, (AquaClear Bio-Max in the link, many different makers/brands) will work just as well as a sponge, so either will work. It has a porous area, that encourages bacteria growth. Place it inside the filter, where ever you can find room, as long as the water is flowing through the media bag.

Hope this helps some. If not, ask away.

Last edited by Twistersmom; 02-07-2010 at 09:01 AM..
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