Betta died, And fear I'll lose my angel fish Please help?
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Betta died, And fear I'll lose my angel fish Please help?

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Betta died, And fear I'll lose my angel fish Please help?
Old 02-06-2010, 09:49 AM   #1
 
Betta died, And fear I'll lose my angel fish Please help?

Really could use some quick answers! I just know time is ticking.
I used to have a aquarium mannny years ago.. Was quite simple, and never had any problems but once had ich.
This time?? REALLY doing bad.. Not sure what I've done wrong.
it's just a 10 gal tank. Got a whisper 2-10 gal pump, a heater that says it keeps temp steady 72-78.
Rinsed my gravel well. Using plastic plants and one decor piece. Used bottle spring water, and did treat it.. Ran tank for 24 hrs before introducing betta, 3 neons and 4 days later, 2 marble angel fish. (and there's a pleco too)
I've used a little flake food, and then freeze dried bloodworms.
My Betta started hanging at bottom of tank.. Then he was trying to jump out of the water at top of tank. (Has a top with lighting) Yesterday he was laying a bit on his side, color faded and I raced to petshop to ask what to do! I was looking to buy Bettafix, but they didn't have any and sold me Pimafix instead. but I have not used it, as before I did, I researched it, and it said that it was used along with melafix and I remembered reading that this is deadly to betta's. Also I read that pimafix has clove oil in it, which I had read was used for euthanizing fish!
By the time I returned home.. My betta was dead.. And late last night I noticed that my Angel Fish were sort of leaning to the side.. and had not eaten much since I brought them home 3 days prior to this..
THE TANK IS SMELLING A BIT FUNKY TOO! Noticed that last night. It's only been set up 6 days. Just yesterday I noticed that teeny bubbles started forming on surface of water. I know betta's do this, but they were there even after I had cleared them up, and the betta was gone. Could the 2-10gal Whisper filter be too small? Seemed like the bigger one 10-30 gal Whisper was too large for the tank, taking up too much room, and making too much commotion in the tank!
I'm so confused.. The guy at petstore said that the bloodworms may be the cause of the betta being sick.. but there is no white spots, or what they call velvet on the fish. NO outward signs other than the worst.. they stay toward top of tank, or bottom.. I think I heard one of the angel fish breaking the top of the water this a.m. as I woke, just as the betta was doing. Like they're trying to get out..
Please.. if you can help.. I'm desperate to save them! Don't know where else to turn, as the pet store doesn't seem to know what's what..
I did a water change, nearly half the water this a.m. but am not even sure I'm doing THAT right! *sigh*

K<~~frustrated and stressed... don't want to lose my fish.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:16 AM   #2
 
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Ok, sounds like you've got some bad water there. I would strongly reccomend a BIG (like 50%) water change ASAP with conditioned water. (Please tell me you have water conditioner.) Also, make sure the water is about the same temperature as your tank.

Your tank is cycling. That means that the fish are producing ammonia (which is toxic) and there are not enough benificial bacteria in the water to conver that into nitrite (also toxic). From there you'll grow some more bacteria which will convert all that into nitrate wish is much less nasty for your fish.

You've just added way too many fish way too fast and your tank can't keep up. I STRONGLY reccomend going out and buying an API Master liquid test kit so you can keep tabs on your water. Also, you're going to need to do at least 25% water changes daily until your water paramiters read 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 0 nitrate.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:32 AM   #3
 
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As stated in response to your other post it sounds like your added too many fish too fast, before your cycleing was complete. It can take a few weeks to get your tanks natural bio filter working properly. I like to toss in a couple Serpae Tetra in for starting fish, they are hardy, and cheap, and get along with most other community fish that I keep. You can also buy some Aquaplus which will neutralize Ammonia, and Nitrite to a certain extent. This and frequent water changes are the only way that I know of to save your current fish.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:43 AM   #4
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by La Reina View Post
Ok, sounds like you've got some bad water there. I would strongly reccomend a BIG (like 50%) water change ASAP with conditioned water. (Please tell me you have water conditioner.) Also, make sure the water is about the same temperature as your tank.

Your tank is cycling. That means that the fish are producing ammonia (which is toxic) and there are not enough benificial bacteria in the water to conver that into nitrite (also toxic). From there you'll grow some more bacteria which will convert all that into nitrate wish is much less nasty for your fish.

You've just added way too many fish way too fast and your tank can't keep up. I STRONGLY reccomend going out and buying an API Master liquid test kit so you can keep tabs on your water. Also, you're going to need to do at least 25% water changes daily until your water paramiters read 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 0 nitrate.
THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH for replying.. I'm just beside myself... My pets mean the world to me, and I consider my fish to be the SAME! Broke my heart when my betta died! He would interact with me, even though I had him such a short time...
This a.m. out of desperation to save my angel fish, (the others don't seem to be in distress = pleco and 3 neons) I did remove approx 50% of the water, and treated a gallon of water with water conditioner.. called Start Right, I used that from the setting up of tank) What really concerned me was that the water I added, would in no way be the same temp. because the tank water was heated! But I feared I was taking the best chance at saving the angel fish from the bad water! So I added it, and saw that it brought temps down from 72/78 and know that this probably shocked the fish too.. They aren't listing to the side now though, and I will head to town to get a test kit ASAP.
Am I going to need to change the charcoal filter? Or is it ok? It's less than a week old, but I was wondering if this water has affected it? I'm sorry if I'm asking stupid questions, I'm just trying hard to learn to do the RIGHT thing.
Also, should I buy the stress relief stuff to put in tank? Or anything else to help the fish at this point? Or should i just focus on the water?
What caused this to happen? Could it have anything to do with the algae tablet that I put in to make sure the pleco had something to eat? When I set tank up, I figured I needed a pleco to keep tank clean, but never considered that he had NO ALGAE to eat since it was a new tank, and this same pet center told me to use the algae tablets. I just don't know what I did wrong... I put the betta in first.. then I added the neons, (they're tiny) 3 days later.. and then added the Angel fish 2-3 days after that.. I didn't realize that was too many fish. *sigh* I feel like horrible knowing I'm causing my fish to suffer.. *grumbles*
Sorry to ask so many questions, but I just want to do it right, and I care for my elderly mother, and can't leave her alone, so going to town, I need to get whatEVER I need all at once.. As I will have to bundle her up and take her with me and it's hard on her.
Thank you Sooooooooo much for your help! ((((La Reina)))) I am grateful!
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:48 AM   #5
 
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As stated above. Your beneficial bacteria has not started to propagate the tank yet and ammonia is building. Additionally, the fish you have are not the best as far as hardiness goes to cycle a new tank. Also confirming the above in doing a 50% water change and use a tap water conditioner for removing chlorine, etc...

An ammonia detoxing agent may be used for immediate relief but keep in mind, the more chemicals you use the worse it is for your tank. Daily water changes are likely going to be needed to keep the ammonia in check. A test kit is essential to test the water parameters. Ammonia,nitrite, nitrate, ph, carbonate hardness, general hardness are the essential and most common tests you will want to do. And when adding the water change water try to temper it to the same as the tank water temp. A cup of tank water with one hand in it and the other in the running tap water to try getting them as close to feeling the same or using a thermometer on the running tap water. Sudden temp changes will shock them and likely cause ich.

I grabbed this link quickly for you to read in a hurry. Tips for Cycling Your New Aquarium - The First Tank Guide - Getting Your Fish Tank Up and Running with Minimal Headaches

Last edited by Mean Harri; 02-06-2010 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:53 AM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbirk View Post
As stated in response to your other post it sounds like your added too many fish too fast, before your cycleing was complete. It can take a few weeks to get your tanks natural bio filter working properly. I like to toss in a couple Serpae Tetra in for starting fish, they are hardy, and cheap, and get along with most other community fish that I keep. You can also buy some Aquaplus which will neutralize Ammonia, and Nitrite to a certain extent. This and frequent water changes are the only way that I know of to save your current fish.

Thank you Thank you cbirk for your input! I will add the Aquaplus to my list right now.. I am waiting on my elderly Mum to be ready to go, and then I'm racing to town... I do hope I can save the 2 angels, 3 neons and pleco from my obvious ignorance! *grumbles at self*
I am sooooo glad you all are here!!!! I can't believe I had a 10 gal aquarium many years ago, and just set it up, and had probably 8-10 fish in it, and all was well! And I didn't take near the precautions as I have with this tank!!! And there was no problems ever! I lived in Florida then, and It was freshwater tank, no heater, and we had a power outage once, and I was in a panic because I didn't want to lose my finned babies.. Called my husband (x now) and was actually crying coz I didn't want to lose my fish! He yelled at me, and told me to LISTEN TO HIM.. told me to put them in a BAIT BUCKET! And put them in our pond, which was brackish.. I argued that they are FRESH WATER FISH, but he told me it was the ONLY chance they had! (we're talking 29yrs ago! lol) So I did, and was SHOCKED that ALL my fish made it, w/ the exception of 1 angel fish and one gourami...

So thank you! I am off to peek in and see if Mum is about ready, and help her get dressed. Will peek back in here just before I leave in case any other replies and suggestions come in! THANK YOU ALL so much for taking the time to help me..

K<~~~crossing fingers
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:00 AM   #7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Harri View Post
As stated above. Your beneficial bacteria has not started to propagate the tank yet and ammonia is building. Additionally, the fish you have are not the best as far as hardiness goes to cycle a new tank. Also confirming the above in doing a 50% water change and use a tap water conditioner for removing chlorine, etc...

An ammonia detoxing agent may be used for immediate relief but keep in mind, the more chemicals you use the worse it is for your tank. Daily water changes are likely going to be needed to keep the ammonia in check. A test kit is essential to test the water parameters. Ammonia,nitrite, nitrate, ph, carbonate hardness, general hardness are the essential and most common tests you will want to do. And when adding the water change water try to temper it to the same as the tank water temp. A cup of tank water with one hand in it and the other in the running tap water to try getting them as close to feeling the same or using a thermometer on the running tap water. Sudden temp changes will shock them and likely cause ich.

I grabbed this link quickly for you to read in a hurry. Tips for Cycling Your New Aquarium - The First Tank Guide - Getting Your Fish Tank Up and Running with Minimal Headaches

Mean Harri.. Love the profile pic... lol
OH POOP! So i've probably just started the beginnings of ICH.. *stillllllllllllll grumbling at myself*
THank you for this LINK! I will totally go and learn! I am grateful for this help..
And am just at myself for causing the death of my beautiful betta! I will go get the test kit PRONTO!
Thank you, thank you!
OH! And I don't use faucet water, because here in Az.. and especially in the area we live in, the water is TERRIBLY Hard.. and we do have a water softener, but I'm not sure thats OK? So I've been buying bottled water or filling my water bottles with reversed osmosis JUST TO MAKE SURE my fish are getting safe water.. Now I'm wondering if I should use the tap water, or buy the spring water as I have been?
Any input on that??? Before I head to town to fill water bottles?

Thanks so much..

K
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:03 AM   #8
 
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Sure thing, just be sure you test your water before you add anything to it. That way you will know for certain what is wrong. I would suggest postin your Amonnia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and PH here too, so that some of the more experianced fish keepers can advise on weather or not adding the detoxing agent is needed, or if just the water changes will be enough. As Mean Harri said, it's best not to add chemicals if you don't HAVE to.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:10 AM   #9
 
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Water contains natural mineral such as calcium which acts as a buffer. As fish waste and food decay it starts to acidify the water. The buffers in the water, known as KH absorb the acids maintaining the PH level. As they are used the Ph will drop and/or fluctuate which is bad for the fish. Most fish are acclimated to higher ph levels found in our drinking water. What you need to be careful of, such as using distilled water, is many of the mineral are removed in the distillation process. Such is the case with RO water. And using distilled or RO water only should not be done as they contain virtually nothing in the water. The water is stripped. There are chemicals that are added to bring the required KH, GH, and PH to where one wants them for their tank. RO is a must really in salt water tanks. But RO units can be costly. Here is an option:
Tap Water Filter - API
This filtered water can be added with conditioned tap water. You play with the ratio until you reach the Ph level you want. it could be 1:1 or 2 of tap water to 1 of filtered. All depends on the individuals source of tap water. it's cheaper and it does work. I used one years ago.

I provide that filter water mixed with tap water as an option because most drinking water from the tap already contains the minerals needed in the water for aquariums.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:12 AM   #10
 
On way out the door.. am afraid I've already lost one angel fish, he's layin' on side, and I am hoping I can save the other.. DANGGGGGGGG.. *sooooo mad at myself!* Will ck in soon as I'm back... :(
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