Odd issue with my Ryukin....
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Odd issue with my Ryukin....

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Odd issue with my Ryukin....
Old 11-12-2013, 11:17 PM   #1
 
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Odd issue with my Ryukin....

For the last few days, my Ryukin, an assumed female orange and white named Peachy Keen, has been sideways and lethargic. I have fed her a couple peas, and have withheld food since, and she is in a net (double netted for safety) in my tank because I don't have a hospital tank. They all get fed at LEAST twice a week (they have live plants they devour and snails they get now and then) and I alternate between high quality flake and soilent green. When neither of these did much, I have put some malachite green in her net, small at first. This does perk her up and put her right side up, but usually for around 20 minutes of trying to eat the net before flopping back on her side. The interesting thing is, she isn't bobbing, she isn't twirling, she's just.....laying there. The snails (Trumpets and Rams horns) and ottos are totally fine, (they're my warning fish), and the other 2 ryukins and shubunkin are very healthy. My Clown Pleco is his usual shy and hungry self (he has wood). Plants have no scorching or haven't seen any odd stunting or growth spurts. I obviously cannot add salt, and the heater is at 18 degrees Celsius. Poor Peachy literally looks like she is passed out drunk. I can touch her, talk to her, jiggle the net, and she is still as if she's fast asleep on her side about an inch under the water. Only the malachite green perks her up, and then she will respond to me and be perky again and try to eat the net....but, then, back to the listless floating. In the last 24 hours, her breathing has slowed, but then perks up fine. I only give a couple drops at at time, as it mostly stays in the net and she tries to eat it.

I don't have test kits, but I have never had an issue, and all but one Ryukin have been from the same pet store, including my plants. I have no reason to think that it's nitrate related, and it doesn't present like constipation or swim bladder. She hasn't pooped since I fed her peas 3 days ago, and all the other tank mates are totally fine.

It is a 33 gallon, over filtered via a HOB and canister filter to around 100 gallons, and water changes are done between 30 and 50% monthly (as the new water tends to stun the Ryukins no matter what temperature, how long it sits, or whether or not I add things like cycle or water conditioner). The substrate which is mostly covered in plants is crushed coral so small that if they swallow it, it will pass through, and there are no pebbles or rocks, except those too large to swallow.

I am at a loss here...

Plants I have are Tape grass, horn wort, a breed of amazon sword, one that's got leaves that have red on the bottom and green on the top (sorry, I have no technical terms), Russian moss balls that were torn to bits and are now are re growing as hundreds of little balls, and something I have only called Jade Leaf. It's slow growing and rounded. It's a deep green color, and the main root is supposed to be above the gravel. There is no sign of hair algae, scum, or anything of the like. Lighting is HOT5 x2 bar, 100 and something watts (sorry) of plant lighting. There is a power head (really small one) that keeps the surface moving, and 3 bubblers along the walls. Hope I didn't miss anything important!

Help?....
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:27 AM   #2
 
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As you can see, she's not bloated or anything, just...there. Forgive the plants, they're due for hedging and the net stops the bridgy thing from staying in place...
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:02 AM   #3
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I've heard that fancies (especially the super fancys) are happier in warmer waters... Usually warmer water (>70Fs />21C i believe) aids digestion. I'm not completely sure what is wrong with the poor thing :( However, I DO know people who know their stuff, hopefully they'll be along soon ;) it's 3 am here in east coast USA, but I'm sure they'll get to you in the morning!


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Old 11-13-2013, 02:21 PM   #4
 
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How large are all the goldies? It would really be best if you could get a liquid test kit and tell us your parameters.

A 33 gallon won't be large enough for your current stock list, unfortunately. Fancy goldfish need 20 gallons for the first and 10 for each goldfish from there. The longer-bodied goldfish need much more space as they get even larger. Generally speaking, ponds are best for these as the appropriate tank for one would be a bit ridiculously large.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:37 PM   #5
 
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They are all very young, about an inch to two inches long. I over filter and do water changes, and so I know what I am doing. I did not come to be lectured about my tank, but for any insight as to why Peachy Keen is dying. If yo read my ENTIRE post, which it seems you didn't, I have THREE Ryukins and ONE shubunkin, meaning I have 4 GOLDFISH total. The Shubunkin is 8 years old and is not getting any larger and shows no sign of stunting. Like I have said before, I over filter, and I have had MANY pro aqueons state this is FINE as long as I perform water changes and don't over feed them. I don't.

Glad to know your priority is to natter at my tank when I have a mysteriously dying fish.



For those who AREN'T here to natter:

Peachy Keen is totally ignoring the malachite green now, and is attempting to swim, but looks rather like a zombie and ends up only slowly swimming in place. Her breathing has slowed too.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:43 PM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CowgirlFishKeeper View Post
They are all very young, about an inch to two inches long. I over filter and do water changes, and so I know what I am doing. I did not come to be lectured about my tank, but for any insight as to why Peachy Keen is dying. If yo read my ENTIRE post, which it seems you didn't, I have THREE Ryukins and ONE shubunkin, meaning I have 4 GOLDFISH total. The Shubunkin is 8 years old and is not getting any larger and shows no sign of stunting. Like I have said before, I over filter, and I have had MANY pro aqueons state this is FINE as long as I perform water changes and don't over feed them. I don't.

Glad to know your priority is to natter at my tank when I have a mysteriously dying fish.



For those who AREN'T here to natter:

Peachy Keen is totally ignoring the malachite green now, and is attempting to swim, but looks rather like a zombie and ends up only slowly swimming in place. Her breathing has slowed too.
Not everyone knows, no need to get upset we are here to help. I never stated that you had any number other than what you stated and I did read your post. Twice, actually.

We really need to know your parameters to help to the full extent but it sounds like a swim bladder issue. I'd feed more peas and see if you can clear out her constipation.

At 12" a fish, the space and filtration necessary for the fancies as adults simply won't be provided in a 33 gallon.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:57 PM   #7
 
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My shubu isn't 12 inches long. She isn't going to get more than 3" long, she is fully grown. She's been fully grown for 4 or 5 years. She won't get to 12". There seems to be a new subspecies now of dwarf shubu, at least that is the theory the pet shop owner is thinking, because the entire brood she came from are all under 5 inches, some of them were eaten by their pondmates as the others grew big enough to eat them. So now he is trying to contact some experts in the fish sciences to come and look. He's now breeding them in the back of the store. She's not a mislabeled comet, either. As for the Ryukins, my oldest and largest is almost 8 years old and hasn't grown at all in the last 2 years, so I would guess they are just smallish. I have seen small adult Ryukins. Plus, even IF they get that large, I STILL over filter and have been told its perfectly fine as long as I can water change and not over feed. Now if all the hulabaloo about my tank is past...

I don't think it's honestly swim bladder because she isn't even trying to swim at all. Just short bursts of flopping. Since she's also no longer trying to eat the malachite green, I doubt she would eat any peas, or soilent green, and I can't force feed her. She also isn't hard in the sides or stomach. It is a puzzle for sure.
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:35 PM   #8
 
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First off, you do have issues with your tank whether or not you want to believe that. It is possible to have small goldfish (I know because I have two), but the big issue I'm seeing is with your water changes. It's common fishkeeping practice (especially with goldfish) to do weekly water changes. This goes for heavily planted tanks, too. Whether or not you are feeding the fish once a week doesn't change the fact that they produce ammonia all the time. I don't know of any goldfish site that won't recommend weekly water changes. That's my first recommendation.

We don't mean to attack your fishkeeping practices, but usually when someone has an issue with goldfish, it's water quality related. We are just trying to rule that out as a cause. I have some more thoughts about what might be wrong, but first I want to address the water quality. No use treating for something if the fish will get sick again because of poor water quality.

As to the temp, while your ryukin is like this, it might not be a bad idea to get a heater and raise the temp to above 22C. Warmer temps help fancy goldfish digest food better (and she may need medicated food). Ever single ryukin I've had did have issues with digestion. As a result I now use a heater in the winter to keep the temp around 23C.
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Chesh (11-14-2013)
Old 11-13-2013, 10:08 PM   #9
 
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The only way to really help you is if you are willing to help. That starts with getting liquid test kits and testing, or take a sample to your LFS and please post the results. Your fish could have a myriad of things, from internal parasites, to a bacterial infection, to SBD. With SBD the swim bladder actually flips over, causing the fish to be unable to maintain the right position. You need to get her out of the tank, and into a shallow QT. The small amount of malachite you are adding near her is doing nothing.
Regardless if you do not want to know it, it isn't right for me NOT to mention{as you may not want to make changes, but someone doing research and who wants to keep their fish in an appropriate sized tank may want to know} I agree a 33 gallon tank is no place for four goldfish. The clown loach has not been mentioned, which should be with at least 5 others of his own kind, needs a huge tank to do right by him, and should also grow to 12+"
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:25 AM   #10
 
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Peachy has passed on - and to make sure, I have fully dosed with malachite. Water change will happen on the weekend, and apparently no one can read because I stated it was a CLOWN PLECO not loach. I would never keep a clown loach in a 33.

If it were water quality related, my snails and ottos would be sick or dead, and the other Ryukins would at least be slowing down some. My most sensitive plants should be scorching or melting, and the water should smell. I know what to look for.

As for water changes, I already explained why they don't happen weekly. Every time, no matter what I do, it stuns the other Ryukins, and one of these days its going to kill them. This is why I have fish, plants, snails, and a nose to tell me when things are off. That being said I know full well that I need test kits, but it has to wait until after Christmas because I have barely enough to live on as it is and the kit I have now is too old to be reliable. With no gas in the car, I can't go have the water tested, which is why I posted here because I know enough to monitor that on my own without help.

I am greatly offended that you people think it's appropriate to harp on about someone's tank when they have explained why. Instead, you've chosen to harp on and make me feel as if I have no right to have fish, and I had to divulge WHY I can't afford these things right now.

As you can tell by the photo there is an abundance of plants that devour bad chems and all that, and I filter WAY above what they need, and I was informed by not one, not two, but FIVE separate CAREER fish tank business owners that if I am sure to over filter and the flow isn't too high that it will be FINE, and has said if the changes are stunning the fish, do it along with a prune once or twice a month and that will help more - but if I notice some of the issues Peachy has seen, to change 50% a week for a couple weeks and put the Ryukins in a bucket while I do it so they don't stun. I plan on doing one on the weekend, one on the next weekend, then a third, and going back to my normal schedule.

Thanks for helping so much and helping me stop my fish from dying.

Oh wait.
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