I don't know much about Goldfish - Three new additions to the family! - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #1 of 23 Old 03-30-2010, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
I don't know much about Goldfish - Three new additions to the family!

Today my mum bought me three Goldfish to go in my 33 gallon flatback hexagon fish tank. They were a replacement for the Oscar she killed (on accident) last night. The following fish are now in the tank:

1 8" Common Plecostomus ("Henry")
1 2" White and Orange Ryukin ("Chester")
1 2 1/2" Orange/White and Black Oranda ("Norman")
1 3" Orange/Black and White Oranda ("Gene")

I know how much you all love photos, so I'll post some tomorrow.

Now, I know quite a bit more about fish than the average 15-year-old girl, and am currently successfully keeping over 113 different species of fish and breeding everything from Bettas to Oscars to Guppies.

I am, though, new to Goldfish. I'm hoping Lupin pops in on this thread. I know the basics of Goldfish, such as their ammonia production due to lack of a stomach, the mis-care they are given due to their hardy-ness, and that you should sink their food because air injestion can cause problems, especially in fancy strains of the species. I'm keeping a close eye on them for ich - for my petsmart just had a HUGE outbreak (Like, a week ago). These fish seem fairly healthy, though they have some torn fins and a couple missing scales (The masses in these ten gallon tanks were ATROCIOUS.)

The Ryukin seems very angsty. He doesnt venture out on his own much, he's always following one of the Orandas, specifically the larger one. He swims much more quickly than the both of them, but I'm sure that's due to his strain of the species and not having a cute mass on his noggin. He was named before we got home, but his name now seems fitting because he acts like the nervous nerd with no friends so he follows others around.

The larger Oranda seems very, very healthy and almost appears to enjoy the Ryukin's company (and the camera, I might add). He was named Gene because of his resemblance to Gene Simmons.

Now, the other Oranda seems to be a loner. He also has some dark patches near the bum end of his underside that are greenish-black? He does have a small bit of black in him, so I may just be overly-concerned as usual. He also isn't as active as active as the others. He'll be swimming then just stop and drift along. Is this just laziness? In his tail, there are orance "veins". Are these parts of his color, or is this a sign of stress or health issues? He also darts to the top frequently as if he's run out of air.

Now, I understand the Plecostomus is going to grow too large for this tank, but my mum won't let me re-home him. (It's bloody rediculous, I know. It's driving me bonkers.) He attacked a few of my other fish (killing some) so I'm hoping to re-home him anyways.

As Im typing this post, Im watching my newly aquired fish. The smaller Oranda, when he makes his darts to the top, isn't gulping air. He's more staring at the bubbles produced by my underground filter.

I'm very excited to have these new additions to my fishy family and hope you all can help.

Fun facts about the trio:

Norman allows for physical contact! Just a few strokes of his head, never enough to disrupt his slime coat.
Norman thinks he's a Betta and gulps air, then spits out bubbles into a structure like a bubble-nest!
Gene likes to waddle in place and open and close his mouth very slightly and quickly then twitch and return to being a Goldfish.
Chester may be a Pearlscale!
Gene has "black lipstick"!

Much love,

Last edited by worsethanzombies; 03-30-2010 at 09:11 PM.
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post #2 of 23 Old 03-30-2010, 11:45 PM
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I know Lupin won't mind my hopping in here to get you started. The first thing I need to tell you is that your tank is way too small for even 1 goldfish much less 3. When healthy, these fish grow quite rapidly.

The red veining in the fins is a warning sign... it typically indicates stress, but that stress can be from moving, from poor water quality, other fish (such as a large pleco harassing them or a bully in the bunch), from water that is too warm, or even from illness. The first thing to do when you notice any red veining in the fins or along the dorsal (back) region, is to check water parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH. The 2nd thing to check is temp... especially with the fancy variety, try to keep it below 70F.

I am wondering where you found info stating that goldfish have no stomachs?

I have been keeping/raising & studying goldfish (both comets and fancy) for many yrs. At present I have only 1, his name is Freddy and you can see a photo of him in my aquariums section. As soon as I finish here I will go check to make sure the photo is there for you. Freddy is about 5 yrs old now, and 8 1/2 inches long, which is full adult size for a fancy goldfish. Freddy lives in a 120 gallon tank, along with a new small (3 1/2 inch)l pleco that was brought home recently to replace the large one that used to reside in there. The big one was re homed because at 8+ inches, he was getting too aggressive and spent too much time attacking Freddy. Fancy goldfish don't swim very fast, so they fall victim to plecos and any other more aggressive fish quickly. Comets are also not good companions for fancy goldfish, as they are far too aggressive. A 2 - 3 inch comet can wipe out a full grown fancy goldfish in a matter of a couple of days... in any size tank.

I am wondering why your mom is refusing to let you re home your pleco? Have you tried explaining to her that 1 of 2 things is going to happen if you don't.... either the pleco is going to get too big for the tank and die... or its going to attack and eat the new goldfish, especially in that size of a tank. Please let your mom know that to keep 3 fancy goldfish as adults with a full grown pleco, you'll need well over 200 gallons of tank space to keep them all alive. The 3 goldfish, as adults, even without the pleco will need at least 200 gallons.

So, I guess my first advice to you would be to start planning for a much larger home for the goldfish asap. If healthy, those fish can double in size over the course of 6 - 8 months. The second bit of advice I can offer is to begin a ritual of daily 10 - 20% water changes (do your water testing before water changes). Be sure to keep good aeration going at all times, and watch closely the red veining in the fins. If it gets worse come back here and let me know and I can offer you some ideas to help until we can determine the actual cause and get it fixed. Goldfish consume a much larger amount of oxygen than the average aquarium fish, and with 3 of them in such a small tank, that will deplete O2 levels quickly.

Keep them clean, keep them cold, and keep them well fed with lots of veggie based foods and algae wafers. Omega makes a great sinking goldfish pellet food, and its offered in different size pellets to accommodate the fish's growth and needs. If you need help finding them I can post a link here for you, just let me know.

I hope this has helped some. There is a lot more to learn about them than what I've put here tonight, but I don't have time to write a manual tonight, lol. I will keep an eye on this post and help get you through the rough spots... but the only way to ultimately "fix" the problem is going to be getting them into a larger tank soon and without the pleco. I don't know where you're located, but apple snails, if you can find them, make good tankmates, and so do trapdoor snails. I have ram's horn snails here, acclimated to the colder water, and they thrive in that tank better than in the warmer tanks.

Best of luck to you and your new friends.

Dawn Moneyhan
Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist
Juneau, WI
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post #3 of 23 Old 03-30-2010, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
My cancer has recently returned and with my father getting all his child support back due to the re-finance and sixe people to feed, money is tight.

I cannot afford a larger tank, though when mum goes off to work one day, I may just re-home him myself. I keep the temperature at 70 farenheit. I'm going to keep a close eye on the Oranda with the veining. As I said, they WERE cramped up in a ten gallon aquarium at a Petsmart that had an ich outbreak a week ago. Its 5am here in London and I have kemo tomorrow so I need some rest. I'll be on tomorrow.

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post #4 of 23 Old 03-31-2010, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
Okay, so I just tested the water with my API Freshwater Master Test Kit. The results are as follows:

Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrate - 5.0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm

I noticed a small white growth-looking thing on the smaller Oranda's head. He is sitting near the bottom a lot today but actively came out when I put food in for them. The others seem to be doing well.
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post #5 of 23 Old 03-31-2010, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
Okay, so, upon closer inspection, the smaller Oranda has ich. Before I buy medication with the money we don't have, what brands do you reccomend and should I treat the whole tank?

I don't like the risk of the other two getting it and that it's so likely they will. I'm guessing this is the cause of the viening in his fins. I can only do one water change a week, and I was planning on around 50%?

The Ryukin is all white, so spotting ich will be nearly impossible and I can't set my ten gallon back up as an isolation. (Mum is very difficult.) Should I turn the heater up to aide with the ich or should I leave it as is?

I'm stressing here, please help.

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post #6 of 23 Old 04-01-2010, 07:30 AM
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well as for what brand, I've always used "Jungle" ick guard.

Treat the tank, just because that one fish have it, doesn't mean the water isn't already contaminated.

I would do that 50% change when you do the water change up, just to remove the infected water. Followed by another treatment, pending how the fish are doing at that point.

I'm not a goldfish expert like lupin, but I have over 10 years with most other species in the Cyprinids and Atherinids category.
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post #7 of 23 Old 04-01-2010, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
I was reading about ich on the GAB forum, and they said that a salt treatment is good for getting rid of ich in Goldfish. 3 teaspoons per gallon so that would be 99 teaspons of salt to keep it at a .03 salt content. I may just try to invest in the ich medication.

These Goldfish aren't a simple task.
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post #8 of 23 Old 04-01-2010, 10:50 AM
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I've always went with the medicine, as I'm always afraid I will mess up on salt levels lol, and i'll end up with a brackish tank and kill off my fish.
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post #9 of 23 Old 04-01-2010, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
I'm scared of that, too.
I'm going to see if I can get mum to take me by Petsmart today after my doctor's appointment so I can get some medication.
What routine do you suggest I use with this medicine?
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post #10 of 23 Old 04-01-2010, 01:51 PM
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Pending the brand, just follow the directions. Usually only add X amount for every gallon.. like a capfull or so many drops.
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