Gosh darn dirty goldfish!!!
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Gosh darn dirty goldfish!!!

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Gosh darn dirty goldfish!!!
Old 02-04-2011, 05:39 PM   #1
 
lilchiwolf's Avatar
 
Angry Gosh darn dirty goldfish!!!

OK, I have owned and bred GF's before and I know how messy they can be. Most of the time its cycle, make sure you have a filter that over cleans to keep up with the mess of the fish and so on. Well I have all that and my water is STILL brown! I do a 25% water change every day and no luck. The only way I can get it clear is to do a 80% change and even then it will stay clear for less than a week. He will be in a 29gal soon, but right now this is his set-up:

Fish: Oranda GF + 1 Pleco
Tank: 10gal standard
Filter: Elite Hush35-145gph
Temp: 76`F
Things in tank: Gravel bottom, about 2inches, one pot decor
Water Tests: Everything is where it should be, ammonia was a tad high, will fix with water changes.
Treat water with: Prime and stresscoat.
Feedings: A sprinkle of GF pellets 2x a day, 1 algae waffer for pleco 1x a day.

So any of you have any clue? I really don't want to go through all this when he gets in his 29gal home T.T


Thanks so much!
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Old 02-04-2011, 06:04 PM   #2
 
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Unfortunately, both of these fish species are high-waste producers. Coupled with the fact that they are in a smaller than advised tank, and you're going to run into some big water quality issues. I'm constantly amazed at how much waste my 2.5 inch goldfish produce after I feed them.

However, I must say, even when we used to have goldfish in a 15 gallon tank with sub-par filtration, my water never turned brown, and that was with one weekly 50% change. You don't have anything in the tank that might be leaking tannins like wood etc. (if you don't, I've heard plecos like to have some to chew on). Also, do you gravel vac when you change the water since that will remove most of the waste and uneaten fish food your pleco can't reach?
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Old 02-04-2011, 06:50 PM   #3
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBettaFish View Post
Unfortunately, both of these fish species are high-waste producers. Coupled with the fact that they are in a smaller than advised tank, and you're going to run into some big water quality issues. I'm constantly amazed at how much waste my 2.5 inch goldfish produce after I feed them.

However, I must say, even when we used to have goldfish in a 15 gallon tank with sub-par filtration, my water never turned brown, and that was with one weekly 50% change. You don't have anything in the tank that might be leaking tannins like wood etc. (if you don't, I've heard plecos like to have some to chew on). Also, do you gravel vac when you change the water since that will remove most of the waste and uneaten fish food your pleco can't reach?
Yeah I never had an issue with my 55gal GF tank and there were 4 fancies in there and a pleco! I don't have any wood, its a pretty bard tank. I am getting the 29gal tomorrow afternoon. And yes I do gravel vac when cleaning. I only do the top layer of rock cause I was told the very bottom can have good bacteria to help break down and eat the waste.
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:09 PM   #4
 
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Goldfish are not dirty. They just eat, poop and grow more than most fish to allow for their adult size. A python water changer will help keep their water clean with minimal fuss. lol I keep goldfish too.
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:14 PM   #5
 
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Just put this dirty thought in your minds yall. My Uncle has a 15 gallon tall tank with 4 standard 5 inch goldfish. Hes always had super clean water Ie 3 to 4 filters running in the back. But Mabe changes the water once a month or longer and waits for the tank to evaporate down like 6 inches from the top before adding more water. O yah I said the water Is clear but theres always a thick layer of green algea brewing on all sides of the tank so you cant ever see them more then 3 weeks after scrubbing the glass. -.-
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:40 AM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilchiwolf View Post
OK, I have owned and bred GF's before and I know how messy they can be. Most of the time its cycle, make sure you have a filter that over cleans to keep up with the mess of the fish and so on. Well I have all that and my water is STILL brown! I do a 25% water change every day and no luck. The only way I can get it clear is to do a 80% change and even then it will stay clear for less than a week. He will be in a 29gal soon, but right now this is his set-up:

Fish: Oranda GF + 1 Pleco
Tank: 10gal standard
Filter: Elite Hush35-145gph
Temp: 76`F
Things in tank: Gravel bottom, about 2inches, one pot decor
Water Tests: Everything is where it should be, ammonia was a tad high, will fix with water changes.
Treat water with: Prime and stresscoat.
Feedings: A sprinkle of GF pellets 2x a day, 1 algae waffer for pleco 1x a day.

So any of you have any clue? I really don't want to go through all this when he gets in his 29gal home T.T


Thanks so much!
So which pleco species do you have? I hope you did not end up with a Pterygoplichthys species. All plecos in that group grow at 12-18 inches. Not appropriate for tanks less than 120g. If you did end up with that one, I suggest you rehome the fish.

What are your water parameters so far? Please post the exact results. Since you mentioned your ammonia is high, then water changes are indeed required. More I think than you currently do until you move both fish to a much bigger tank. I hope your nitrite and nitrate are not dangerously high. Nitrite can cause brown blood disease or poisoning to your goldfish. If you find black smudges on your goldfish, then it is established your fish may be suffering ammonia burns. The black smudges are healing tissues but their presence indicates something is wrong with your water quality.

Your foods for goldfish and pleco are very inadequate. Goldfish and pleco need a varied diet in order to grow properly. May I suggest that you supplement them with gel foods, vegetables, shrimps, mussels, chopped earthworms, daphnia, brine shrimps, bloodworms and everything else you can get a hold of.

Which brand of commercial pellets are you using? Some orandas, as with all round bodied fancy goldfish, tend to float when fed with pellets very high in fillers (crappy starch).

To understand better the nutritional requirements of your goldfish, please read these.

Goldfish Nutrition Part 1: The natural diet and digestive processes | Goldfish

Goldfish Nutrition Part 2: Food and Nutrition | Goldfish

For gel food recipes, you may read this. They're very easy to make.
The Goldfish and Aquarium Board • View topic - Gel Food Recipes

For baby food gel foods, here it is.
The Goldfish and Aquarium Board • View topic - Baby Food Gel Food Recipes

A 29g will be appropriate for 1-2 oranda goldfish. Only round bodied fancy goldfish should be housed appropriately there. No singletails as these ones can reach 12-18 inches. In general, goldfish are better off in much bigger tanks but you can allot 15g for the first fish and 10g for additional fish. This applies only to fancy goldfish with body length averaging 8-10 inches. Fancies tend to be more bulky than slender.

Ditch the stress coat. Your goldfish and pleco need to breathe properly. Stresscoat will simply encourage your fish to produce more slime coat than necessary. Once it traps itself in their gills, your fish will suffocate. I do not find those necessary or appropriate. Your fish are capable of producing sufficient slime coat to protect themselves from foreign agents unless severely injured.

And you'll be better off with a barebottom setup than to add gravel if you have problems with water clarity. I keep my tanks barebottom with plants stuck in pots. Very easy to maintain and still appealing to look at when you know how to do it.

Last edited by Lupin; 02-05-2011 at 06:43 AM..
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Old 02-05-2011, 07:05 AM   #7
 
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My goldfish absolutely hate Gel foods. I made a whole big batch the other day and they took one bite and spat the whole thing out. I think it's the gelatin they don't like, even when I added some tomato paste and garlic to make it a bit more appetizing. They also have no interest in any of my plants like elodea and bacopa. The only thing they took some bites out of were half-dead vals.

I forgot to mention this, but you will also have to watch the pleco. That particular species is kind of notorious for feeding on the slime coat of goldfish. A big, slow-moving fancy is a fairly easy target after all.
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:54 AM   #8
 
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My pleco is just your normal, everyday pleco. Yeah, the one that gets big. He has not bothered my goldfish at all. The only suckerfish (witch stinks cause they are super awesome at cleaning) that would attack my past GF's were the little yellow fu**ers. Sorry for the french, but thats what I call them :P

I know off hand that the PH was 7.4. I will do another check and get back to you on the others cause it seems I misplaced my paper that I wrote it on.

As for food, he gets a mix of:

Wardley: Goldfish Crumblers
Aqueon: Goldfish Granules
Tetra: Baby Shrimp

I also will toss in a lettous leaf, chunk of orange, bloodworms (frozen) as a snack one in a while. Not all together, I just pick something for them to nibble ever few days.

I have never used supplements on my goldfish in the past, but I will look into it. I will also look into the bare bottom tank for my new one and see how it goes. I might have to wait on the potted pants cause they can be a bit pricey.
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:50 PM   #9
 
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Just Curious, how much are potted pants? ^.^
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:45 PM   #10
 
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Just Curious, how much are potted pants? ^.^
Depending on size, $12 and up
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