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This is a discussion on In trouble within the Cichlids forums, part of the Freshwater and Tropical Fish category; --> I suspect your fish are suffering from ammonia and or nitrite poisoning. As Byron said a full function water conditioner such as PRIME or ...

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Old 10-08-2009, 05:03 AM   #11
 
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I suspect your fish are suffering from ammonia and or nitrite poisoning. As Byron said a full function water conditioner such as PRIME or AMQUEL+ is needed for your fish to have a chance.
I would get one of the afore mentioned water conditioners as soon as possible.
I would only feed remaining fish once every other day and only a tiny amount. I would change five gal of water any time my API freshwater master kit indicated ammonia greater than.25. I would not add any chemicals to the water other than the water conditioners mentioned above. I would not clean or remove the filter for the next three weeks. The filter material will be trying to establish the good bacteria to deal with the ammonia that is produced by fish through poop and also from fish food, that's why you need to only feed the fish every other day. Do not add any more fish until your filter has matured. The good bacteria over a few weeks,will develop and if you don't overfeed the fish you have remaining,and you test for ammonia daily,and you perform a five gal water change when ammonia is above.25 using a good water conditioner such as PRIME or AMQUEL+, then your tank will mature to the point that you can safely add more fish SLOWLY one or two fish at a time with a week in between new additions. You will know when it is time,, for your test kit(API FRESHWATER),, will indicate 0 for ammonia and nitrites for four to five consecutive days,and nitrAtes will appear. This whole process is called (cycling) your tank and I would urge you to google info on this process. Your interest will be with fish in method for you already have fish in the tank. that is why frequent water changes ,perhaps daily (if over feeding)will be needed. I recommend a dime size amount of flake food crushed up for the fish every other day .
Don't worry about the pH and do resist the urge or advice, with respect to adding any cycle this,stress that,, or pH up and down products. The only thing you need is a full function water conditioner such as the two mentioned, that will detoxify,,AMMONIA,CHLORINE,and CLORAMINES. The product you currently have ,does not do anything for AMMONIA which even at low levels,will kill your remaining fish.
Don't panic and begin dumping medications into the tank. These will not work so long as the fish are being exposed to toxins such as ammonia and nitrites. You may indeed lose more fish but indiscriminate use of meds won't save them. Water that is free of toxins will give them the best chance.
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:29 AM   #12
 
Smaller angelfish are very sensitive to water conditions and should NEVER be a fish you use during a cycle. If you choose to put fish in immediately follow Byron's advice.

Do you have a place you can buy fish form other than PetCo? The quality of their livestock is always questionable.
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:08 AM   #13
 
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I agree with the quality of fish form Petco being generally poor. They should always be placed in quarantine tank as should all fish before introducing them to your display tank.
But the fish are in the tank ,so that is what we have. Byrons suggestion of adding some live plants to help consume ammonia is also a good idea. I might consider floating plants that don't require an immediate upgrade in lighting and or ferts at least until such time as the tank has matured or (cycled).
In my expierience the ph can fluctuate during the (cycling) and i don't pay it much mind for that reason. As Byron also suggested and I agree, removing rocks that could be altering the alkalinity is also a good idea.
I suspect to get a true ph reading of tapwater, that the tapwater should be allowed to set overnight in a bucket to allow gases and or co2 to off gas. Could be the ph of tapwater at that point,would be closer to that in the tank assuming that nothing in the tank is indeed raising the alkalinity. pH tets of tapwater right after drawing it from tap, will often be lower than pH will be after the drawn tapwater has set for twelve to twenty four hours.
Is also helpful at times to get second opinion on ph readings from local fish store ,or by carefully repeating the test.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:25 PM   #14
 
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My water tests are in my first post... I'll check them again later today. The new angels were from a different store, and I could notice a huge difference based on their activity. One of them is still hanging on.
Looks like someones eating away at one of my plants, hope its not poison !
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:15 PM   #15
 
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NitrAte ~6ppm, pH 7.2, Ammonia ~0.25ppm, nitrIte is ~0ppm.
My temp fluctuates about 1-2f between 81-83. I cant do anything about that, the room temp is never consistent and the heater only heats :o
My last angel is ok for now, hopfully he will pull through. The tetras dont seem to care at all.
When I do my water change, and gravel sweep, is it ok to put on a canister filter for a few hours to suck up all the crap that will be floating around after?
I finished 3rd (last) day of that "cycle" stuff yesterday, and it says to add a little bit with every water change, same as the stress coat. I'd rather use it unless its not good at all... I've spent enough money already I'd like to at least use what I have a little bit.
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Old 10-08-2009, 07:24 PM   #16
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdemin View Post
NitrAte ~6ppm, pH 7.2, Ammonia ~0.25ppm, nitrIte is ~0ppm.
My temp fluctuates about 1-2f between 81-83. I cant do anything about that, the room temp is never consistent and the heater only heats :o
My last angel is ok for now, hopfully he will pull through. The tetras dont seem to care at all.
When I do my water change, and gravel sweep, is it ok to put on a canister filter for a few hours to suck up all the crap that will be floating around after?
I finished 3rd (last) day of that "cycle" stuff yesterday, and it says to add a little bit with every water change, same as the stress coat. I'd rather use it unless its not good at all... I've spent enough money already I'd like to at least use what I have a little bit.
Until the tank is cycled you should not be disturbing the substrate (gravel). Bacteria will (or will try to) colonize the gravel and you want to encourage them, not remove them. Frequent partial water changes (normal is once a week when the tank is biologically stable) should only be of the water as it is intended to remove excess ammonia and nitrite so the bacteria (and lants) have a better chance of using the rest quicker.

Follow 1077's previous advice. I can't say more.

Byron.
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:42 PM   #17
 
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Sorry to keep bothering you guys but I'm just not having any luck at all with this. Looks like my angel might have got ich... I read that its recommended to remove the filter, which here I was told not to do until my cycle completes. Does this mean removing the bio wheel as well or can I leave that in?
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:52 AM   #18
 
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Sorry to keep bothering you guys but I'm just not having any luck at all with this. Looks like my angel might have got ich... I read that its recommended to remove the filter, which here I was told not to do until my cycle completes. Does this mean removing the bio wheel as well or can I leave that in?
Well your cycle takes time to complete. Also I have not had to deal with ich yet *cross fingers*. However I cannot speak on how to treat it, but if you are medicating your tank (let others advise you on this first) you have to remove the carbon pad or package FROM your filter. You still need the filter to keep the water moving and suck up little debris floating in your water. I believe if you have plants (dont know if you do) you dont need carbon so just filter floss would be fine, and the bacteria can grow on that. (Let Byron correct me on that)
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Old 10-11-2009, 11:40 AM   #19
 
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Mrdemin, ich is a parasite that frequently appears when fish are stressed by something. In this case, the uncycled tank is causing the fish considerable stress in fighting the ammonia and nitrite poisioning (which is killing some of your fish) and in such circumstances ich is common. In my opinion, the first thing to rectify is the nitrification cycle. Then deal with the ich. When that time comes, my preferred remedy is to use Aquari-Sol. It takes a week to completely kill off the ich parasites because of their life cycle. Aquari-Sol in my experience is less stressful to sensitive fish. It contains less copper, and copper is an ingredient in most ich remedies and copper is highly toxic to fish and plants except in very low numbers. Which is why you should not further stress the fish with medication until the nitrogen cycle has established itself.

Many will recommend salt and higher temperatures for ich; while this works, I never use it because the negative effect of the salt on the fish and plants is in my view unnecessary, and raising the temperature is itself stressful on some fish and some plants, another problem. I believe the copper in Aquari-Sol is the lesser of the two evils on the fish, and I have certainly never had any trouble with plants when I've had to use Aquari-Sol. And I never raise the temperature for ich treatments and the few times I've used Aquari-Sol the ich has been gone in 4-5 days.

Trevor is correct on the plants not needing carbon filtration, but in this case whether you do or don't have plants, leave the carbon until the cycle is established. Remove it when treating for ich as carbon will remove the medication.

Byron.
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:40 PM   #20
 
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Well, the ich is getting worse I think... Should I treat them or just let it multiply? I'm not sure how you know when the cycle is complete, someone mentioned when the nitrites and ammonia are down for at least 5 days... I do not think the fish will wait that long
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