My new Apistogramma cacatuoides - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 15 Old 01-08-2011, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by aunt kymmie View Post
Byron, I have no idea! My four came from a tank of captive bred juvies and I have no idea what the parents look like. I think your right about the pic being a female. The one I'm trying to get a pic of is what must be a male. He's the same size but already is showing an orange dorsal with a hint of blue in the checks. I think he's gonna be a looker!
Eventually I WILL get a pic of him.
This species has a very large distribution in the wild for an Apistogramma; it is found throughout the Rio Ucayali system, a large southern tributary of the Amazon that runs almost the length of Peru, as well as in other tributaries of the upper Amazon in that region (Peru, Colombia and western Brazil). There are several colour forms in the wild, commonly referred to a blue, red and yellow according to the principal colour of the male's fins. Selective breeding in the hobby has intensified these, and there are now many variants of the colours available.

By the way, with this species, you will likely find you have one male who will develop incredible colour and finnage and the rest will "seem" to be females though they will not be as overall yellow and will have some colour. However, should the dominant male leave the tank, one of the other males will then develop the intensified colour and fins. Other species do similar; I spawned A. bitaeniata years ago and they were the same. I thought I had one male and 4 females in my group of five, but when the male was removed suddenly one of the "females" took his place. The submissive males (for lack of a better term) will not spawn as females, they are males in waiting so to speak.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If youíre going to take it under your wing then youíre responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-08-2011, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
This species has a very large distribution in the wild for an Apistogramma; it is found throughout the Rio Ucayali system, a large southern tributary of the Amazon that runs almost the length of Peru, as well as in other tributaries of the upper Amazon in that region (Peru, Colombia and western Brazil). There are several colour forms in the wild, commonly referred to a blue, red and yellow according to the principal colour of the male's fins. Selective breeding in the hobby has intensified these, and there are now many variants of the colours available.

By the way, with this species, you will likely find you have one male who will develop incredible colour and finnage and the rest will "seem" to be females though they will not be as overall yellow and will have some colour. However, should the dominant male leave the tank, one of the other males will then develop the intensified colour and fins. Other species do similar; I spawned A. bitaeniata years ago and they were the same. I thought I had one male and 4 females in my group of five, but when the male was removed suddenly one of the "females" took his place. The submissive males (for lack of a better term) will not spawn as females, they are males in waiting so to speak.

Byron.
Wow, interesting. Ron netted what he thought looked to be a male (due to the already intense coloring) and the remaining three which he felt could be female. Of course I wanted nothing but the "pretty" ones but Ron insists that I have the "proper" male/female ratios, lol.
The three "females" have such drab coloring as compared to my "male" but after reading what you posted I could have all males, too. So far, they all enjoy hanging out together but I'm sure that will change?
I wonder what's going to happen if I have all males?? A blood bath? Luckily the tank is plenty big enough for every single one of them to claim their own piece of real estate. Ron told me a story about a male cacatuoide who wasn't able to be housed with ANY of his own species, he killed off every cacatuoide in the tank with him. Hopefully that's a "one off" story.

If you don't stand up for something you'll fall for anything...
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post #13 of 15 Old 01-09-2011, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by aunt kymmie View Post
Wow, interesting. Ron netted what he thought looked to be a male (due to the already intense coloring) and the remaining three which he felt could be female. Of course I wanted nothing but the "pretty" ones but Ron insists that I have the "proper" male/female ratios, lol.
The three "females" have such drab coloring as compared to my "male" but after reading what you posted I could have all males, too. So far, they all enjoy hanging out together but I'm sure that will change?
I wonder what's going to happen if I have all males?? A blood bath? Luckily the tank is plenty big enough for every single one of them to claim their own piece of real estate. Ron told me a story about a male cacatuoide who wasn't able to be housed with ANY of his own species, he killed off every cacatuoide in the tank with him. Hopefully that's a "one off" story.
I am fairly certain that the fish in your photo is a female. The solid black leading edge to the ventral fins only occurs in females, not males. Plus the yellow with the black lateral band is quite distinctive. Even if the very short first rays of the dorsal would make this a female, this could change as the "male" develops but I suspect not to that extent.

They will be fairly peaceful within the group even if more than one male, especially in larger tanks. I had my group of 5 A. bitaeniata in a 15g, and they twice spawned (the dominant male and a female). There was never any issue, the submissive male (I believe it turned out to be 2 males/3 females) kept his place.

By the way, you have leaves, that is good; females prefer the underside of leaves on the substrate for spawning sites to deposit their eggs. And in the wild these fish hide under leaves regularly for protection. And you will have spawning, the female in the photo plus the male you are sure of will guarantee a spawning before too many weeks have passed.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If youíre going to take it under your wing then youíre responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #14 of 15 Old 01-09-2011, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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I am fairly certain that the fish in your photo is a female. The solid black leading edge to the ventral fins only occurs in females, not males. Plus the yellow with the black lateral band is quite distinctive. Even if the very short first rays of the dorsal would make this a female, this could change as the "male" develops but I suspect not to that extent.

They will be fairly peaceful within the group even if more than one male, especially in larger tanks. I had my group of 5 A. bitaeniata in a 15g, and they twice spawned (the dominant male and a female). There was never any issue, the submissive male (I believe it turned out to be 2 males/3 females) kept his place.

By the way, you have leaves, that is good; females prefer the underside of leaves on the substrate for spawning sites to deposit their eggs. And in the wild these fish hide under leaves regularly for protection. And you will have spawning, the female in the photo plus the male you are sure of will guarantee a spawning before too many weeks have passed.
Do you still have your A. bitaeniata? I just googled them, nice fish!
Yep, my fish have lots and lots of leaves and cover in my tank. A guaranteed spawning? I wonder how good of parents they are and if they would be able to defend any fry against a marauding bands of looters?

If you don't stand up for something you'll fall for anything...
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-09-2011, 12:43 PM
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Do you still have your A. bitaeniata? I just googled them, nice fish!
Yep, my fish have lots and lots of leaves and cover in my tank. A guaranteed spawning? I wonder how good of parents they are and if they would be able to defend any fry against a marauding bands of looters?
I had my A. bitaeniata back in the mid 1980's, when they were known as Apistogramma kleei, now considered a synonym for A. bitaeniata. I managed to get five imported directly from SA; such fish were not commercially available then except as wild caught or from local breeders. Which actually hasn't changed much.

Yes, guaranteed spawning. Dwarf cichlids will spawn readily and often. My Apistogramma baenschi "inka" that I told you about a while back have spawned. But as you say, with other fish in the tank, successful rearing of the fry is almost impossible. The parents can defend them fairly well during daylight, but at night when the catfish are on the prowl, they disappear.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If youíre going to take it under your wing then youíre responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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