Krib and Ram???? - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 49 Old 12-30-2009, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Ok so I just did a parameter test and I got :
PH : 7.2
Total hardness: 200ppm
Total Alkalinity: 125ppm
Free Chlorine: 0ppm
Total Bromine:0ppm

The other test kit was using wasnt very good, it was on a scale of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 for pH... so not very usefull i guess... If i could lower the pH of my water to 6.0-6.8ish would i be able to keep German Blue Rams (called dwarf rams at my LFS) in my tank at 80 degrees? I am obsessed with the GBRs but I dont want to get a new tank or get rid of the fish in my tank and i want only whats best for the fish... Is there any way of keeping GB Rams or balloon rams or dwarf rams or whatever u want to call them together in a tank because none of my LFSs have bolivian rams and they get quite big for my tank... Please Help
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post #12 of 49 Old 12-30-2009, 11:28 PM
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I wish you could find the Bolivians. I too, also wanted (really wanted!) the Blue Rams but in the best interest of the fish my natural water params (very much like yours) wouldn't cut it. My Bolivians are thriving and have topped out at a little less than 3". It's a shame you can't find them. They are delightful fish.

If you don't stand up for something you'll fall for anything...
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post #13 of 49 Old 12-31-2009, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe I will just wait until I can find some Bolivian Rams because I don't want to put the german blue rams in a tank that doesn't suit their needs. Hopefully I will find Bolivian Rams one day...
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post #14 of 49 Old 12-31-2009, 12:54 PM
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Maybe I will just wait until I can find some Bolivian Rams because I don't want to put the german blue rams in a tank that doesn't suit their needs. Hopefully I will find Bolivian Rams one day...
Good thinking. Sometimes a good local fish store will try to order fish if you ask. Or there are online fish dealers; as you are in Canada, and in Quebec, there is a dealer in Montreal by the name of Oliver Lucanus, his business is called Below Water. Here's the website: http://www.belowwater.com/Home.html I have not personally ordered from Mr. Lucanus but I know others who have here in Vancouver. He is an authority on South American fish, having written articles for magazines like TFH and AFI. He is able to acquire some interesting fish from time to time (when in season as applies to SA fish that can now be collected by law only during certain times of the year to preserve the wild stock, a good thing indeed).

I happened to run into another hobbyist in a lfs Tuesday, and we were discussing (amongst several things) the common ram. He has had a pair for 4 years now. As many on this forum have mentioned, this fish seldom lives for more than a few months. I believe the reason is simply water parameters. Mikrogeophagus ramirezi comes from very soft (0 dGH and 0 dKH) and quite acidic (pH 5.4) water, and warm (mid-80's F) in its natural habitat. Our water here where I live is also very soft (zero hardness out of the tap) and acidic (my tanks run at pH 6 constantly, I use dolomite/crushed coral to keep them from falling lower) and this aquarist has their tank at 82F. When provided with what they need, they will live for years. Although many of the common ram fish now available are tank-raised, they seem to have retained their preference for soft, acidic and warm water; some feel that tank-raised fish can become adapted to different water parameters from what they would have in nature, but if this is true (and I am not totally convinced that it is long-term for many fish) it certainly does not seem to apply to common rams.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]

Last edited by Byron; 12-31-2009 at 12:58 PM.
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post #15 of 49 Old 12-31-2009, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you very much for all the information Byron :) So I went to another not so "local" LFS and I saw some other dwarf cichlids.. there were a few but I only remember some apistogramma something... I know I was obsessed with rams but now that my ram plans arent going smoothly and there are plenty of other dwarf cichlids does anyone have any suggestions on any dwarf cichlid or moderately small cichlid that could live in my tank? I have this strange fish needing disease I dont know about you all... I dont think its contagious though... :) just joking
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post #16 of 49 Old 01-01-2010, 01:33 PM
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Thank you very much for all the information Byron :) So I went to another not so "local" LFS and I saw some other dwarf cichlids.. there were a few but I only remember some apistogramma something... I know I was obsessed with rams but now that my ram plans arent going smoothly and there are plenty of other dwarf cichlids does anyone have any suggestions on any dwarf cichlid or moderately small cichlid that could live in my tank? I have this strange fish needing disease I dont know about you all... I dont think its contagious though... :) just joking
There are many species in the genus Apistogramma from South America, all roughly similar in behaviour and size. Unfortunately, many of them are also very sensitive to specific water parameters [the dwarf cichlids as a group tend to be this way, with a few exceptions] and need soft, acidic water. I have spawned some of them under these conditions, and Mr. Newman to whose article on the Bolivian Ram I linked earlier has collected and spawned almost all of them I think, and written on most. Luckily our water here in Vancouver is very soft and slightly acidic, so we have a distinct advantage with such sensitive fish. Oliver Lucanus gets several of these Apistogramma in from time to time. Some will adapt to slightly basic water (pH in the low 7's) with some hardness; I made a list of these species after some research for an earlier thread, now I can't find it. Here's a site with info on many species, click the two "Fishroom" links to see the photo index. Home
Some research will tell you their water parameter requirements.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #17 of 49 Old 01-01-2010, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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I did some research and I found a cichlid called apistogramma agasizzi. I am pretty sure they are one of the fish I saw at my LFS. It says they prefer water from 6.8 to around neutral... so would 7.2 fit in around neutral??? also I don't know whether my water is hard or soft all I have is some numbers that I posted previously:
Quote:
PH : 7.2
Total hardness: 200ppm
Total Alkalinity: 125ppm
Free Chlorine: 0ppm
Total Bromine:0ppm
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post #18 of 49 Old 01-01-2010, 04:55 PM
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I did some research and I found a cichlid called apistogramma agasizzi. I am pretty sure they are one of the fish I saw at my LFS. It says they prefer water from 6.8 to around neutral... so would 7.2 fit in around neutral??? also I don't know whether my water is hard or soft all I have is some numbers that I posted previously:
Your water is medium hard, so to speak, so that's not too bad. A. agasizzi is more regularly available than some, and there are a few colour variants that are natural. If you have clean rain in your area, not near pollution sources like industry or factories, and you collect it out in a barrel not from roof runoff, you could mix a bit with tap water at partial water changes and make quite a difference. Experiment if you do this before getting the fish, they don't like variations in chemistry. But even without this, I would expect a pair or trio would adapt. A pair works, or one male/2-3 females. Two or more males will defend territories, not a real issue if space permits and plants and wood define the territories. Also, there is usually a dominant male, and the other males in my case appeared to be females. When the dominant male died, I was surprised to see one of the "females" immediately took over and the fin extensions grew and colouration deepened. It was not a case of sex reversal, just a submissive male. Of course, the group of 4 were in a 15g so with more room things might have been different. This was back in the early 1980's when I was just learning about these fascinating fish.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #19 of 49 Old 01-01-2010, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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So Apistogramma Agasizzi are compatible with my kribs, barbs and swordtails, can live in my tank water and don't grow too big... I think I'm in heaven... On top of all that they are readily available at most of my LFS's. If I do get some A. Agasizzi (BTW what is their common name??) would 1 male and 2 females work? Just to be sure, females are plumper and males have longer fin extensions... Are there any other ways of determining sex? If you could provide me with any additional info, I would love that! Thank you sooooo much for all the help you've given me because if I didn't consult you, I would probably have ended up with three dead blue rams in my tank. Thanks - Dylan
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post #20 of 49 Old 01-01-2010, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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OK OK OK I know I just said I was obsessed with Apistogramma Agasizzi but I did more research and found that they are a bit sensitive and slightly harder to care for than other dwarf cichlids... but while doing research I found Apistogramma Cacatuoides, they are close cousins of the agassizis but they are less sensitive and their water parameter requirements are almost exact to my tank. Not to mention they are BEAUTIFUL!!! I know I saw cockatoo cichlids at my LFS, I just didn't pay much attention to them because I thought they were an african cichlid because of where their tank was. I think I am sticking with this species. What do you think?
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