I have questions about the scalare angelfish - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 16 Old 12-15-2011, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Gordon View Post
Byron,

I agree with what you said. I certainly wouldn't set up a display 20 gal with a single angel, but if I need to put one in my hospital tank, or If I'm quarantining a single newly acquired fish, they do fine by themselves.

Lee
That is a very different thing Lee, and comes under my mention of "emergency." The original member was considering a tank of 20g and asked about a single angel mixed with tetra. I take that to mean a permanent state, not quarantining or something. I'm glad we both agree this is not in the best interests of this beautiful fish.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #12 of 16 Old 12-15-2011, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
There may be an issue with differing water parameters/conditions and this is difficult to pinpoint without more tests. But your comment on bullying is pertinent regardless. Once a group of angelfish are in a given aquarium, new angelfish should not be added. Some have had success by using a different tank for the larger group, or re-arranging the aquascape in a major way to create the perception of a new "space." But a group of angelfish will naturally form a hierarchy and one male will usually be dominant. The group sees the tank as "their space" and any newcomers will often be driven away; in the confines of an aquarium, this often results in the death of the new fish since they cannot escape far enough from the territory of the original group. This is set out in our profile of this fish, click on the name Pterophyllum scalare.

Byron.
Respectfully I disagree with the statement "Once a group of angelfish are in a given aquarium, new angelfish should not be added." As a small scale breeder, my angelfish populations are constantly in flux, some more than others. I routinely add angelfish to a tank of angels that has been "stable" for 6 months or more. It all depends on the individual fish, but i generally find the transition can be made with little problem, unlike with other cichlids. I have probably had 3-4 fish die from "aggression" in 4+ years (due to being with a breeding pair), and I keep thousands of angelfish of all ages in my fishroom. Certain angelfish breeds tend to be more territorial, both in general and during breeding. This includes black (dark) angels. I also breed toward more docile, less skiddish fish and have been quite successful doing so, even with the routine introduction of wild blood.

That said, the transition is easiest with similar size fish, and if they are routinely "disturbed" with large water changes.


Lee
Angelmania
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post #13 of 16 Old 12-15-2011, 11:40 PM
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Concerning keeping neons/cardinals with Angels, my assertion above came from personal experience. Ten years ago I set up my first South American tank. And I made the mistake of putting a group of Neons in with my Angelfish. Bad move. My Angels had an expensive meal in short order. Heartbreaking, I tell ya! Learn from my fail!

"My dither fish need dither fish!"
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post #14 of 16 Old 12-16-2011, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Gordon View Post
Respectfully I disagree with the statement "Once a group of angelfish are in a given aquarium, new angelfish should not be added." As a small scale breeder, my angelfish populations are constantly in flux, some more than others. I routinely add angelfish to a tank of angels that has been "stable" for 6 months or more. It all depends on the individual fish, but i generally find the transition can be made with little problem, unlike with other cichlids. I have probably had 3-4 fish die from "aggression" in 4+ years (due to being with a breeding pair), and I keep thousands of angelfish of all ages in my fishroom. Certain angelfish breeds tend to be more territorial, both in general and during breeding. This includes black (dark) angels. I also breed toward more docile, less skiddish fish and have been quite successful doing so, even with the routine introduction of wild blood.

That said, the transition is easiest with similar size fish, and if they are routinely "disturbed" with large water changes.


Lee
Angelmania
Here again we need to remember the context. While you and I with our many tanks in a fishroom will be prepared to resolve issues with bullying fish, I have to consider that most of our members asking about angelfish are more likely dealing with one display tank, a 55g for instance. If they decide to buy another angelfish some months after acquiring a group of 4 or 5, the risk is very real that they may have trouble. And with no where to move the fish, it either suffers and dies, or they return it to the store.

I know how frustrating problem fish can be. I had a group of Rainbow Emperor Tetra which are noted by almost all sources I am familiar with as being peaceful, comparable to the common Emperor Tetra. So when I came across some, I acquired a group of 12. They went into my 90g, but not for long; their over-active lifestyle was clearly stressing out the quieter fish, so I moved them into my 115g. Lots of space, or so I thought. After several weeks, I began noticing that all the fish in the tank remained right of centre tank. On the left side were 3 or 4 of the male RET, "owning" the space. Any other fish that ventured into this area was immediately driven back. This continued for a few days, until I realized it was not going to change, and out came the RET. They went into yet another tank, a 90g again; after a few weeks, same issue. Finally I got rid of them by giving them to another aquarist with a large tank with nothing else in it; I made her aware of what they were like. Even with several tanks, I still had to get rid of this fish, solely due to its inherent temperament. Had I known ahead that it "might" be like this, I would never have acquired them. We cannot change how fish are programmed by nature; but we can make ourselves aware of their general temperament and provide accordingly. That is the safest approach, especially for those with limited space.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #15 of 16 Old 12-18-2012, 08:18 PM
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Uh, people I know I'm not the smatest person here when it comes to fish but every book,LFS and follow fish keeper heve said 1 anglefish per 10 gallons so I bet you could keep 2 males or 2 femals in your tank without a problem.
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post #16 of 16 Old 12-18-2012, 09:16 PM
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Uh, people I know I'm not the smatest person here when it comes to fish but every book,LFS and follow fish keeper heve said 1 anglefish per 10 gallons so I bet you could keep 2 males or 2 femals in your tank without a problem.
That may be in relation to water quality, but there is more to the whole picture than just that. For example you could keep a neon tetra alive in a jar, but it wouldn't be happy without a school and space to swim around.
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