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Discus Aquarium

This is a discussion on Discus Aquarium within the Cichlids forums, part of the Freshwater and Tropical Fish category; --> Ya that's what I figured :) Thanks you guys....

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Old 04-27-2010, 03:22 PM   #11
 
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Ya that's what I figured :) Thanks you guys.
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:19 PM   #12
 
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Hi :) Today we had to add muriatic acid to our pool to get rid of the copper build up. The muriatic acid completely destroyed the alkalinity and dropped the pH. The pool was at 7.8pH, 11 dGH and with only one gallon of muriatic acid it went to 6.4pH, 0 dGH alkalinity!!!! The pool is huge. Definitely over 1000 gallons. I don't know how one gallon of muriatic acid could do that. My pool is now perfect discus water, minus the chlorine and temperature :) I was wondering if I could use muriatic acid to lower my pH in the discus tank. It was only 6$ for 1 gallon of muriatic acid. I would only use like a teaspoon per water change or less. I would have to do some tests to see how much muriatic acid to put in, but once i have a regular dosing schedule, it will be easy. I will have a storage bin for the water. I will dechlorinate it and then put the muriatic acid in it, then i will aerate it with an air stone for 24 hours, before putting it into the tank to avoid fluctuation in pH and hardness. An RO unit is still not out of the question, I was just curious about the muriatic acid.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:50 AM   #13
 
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I have heard of those who have used muriatic acid. Would get KH reading of tapwater after it has set out for 24 hours along with pH. This will give you a fixed number(s) to allow you to expieriment in seperate container until desired levels are achieved. Would wait 24 hours after dosing to check results and take GREAT pains not to get any of the acid on clothing,inhale any fumes or contact with eyes.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:46 PM   #14
 
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thanks 1077. That's the only problem I have with the muriatic acid: it's dangerous and corrosive.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:18 PM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylan94 View Post
thanks 1077. That's the only problem I have with the muriatic acid: it's dangerous and corrosive.
The "only" problem? That is THE problem, lol. I'm not allowed to use it. I tried to use it once to clean some stains off of a bathroom sink, I spilled a little...anyway, I'm banned from using it in the house ever again.
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:40 PM   #16
 
Muriatic acid acid is a trade name for HCl or hydrochloric acid. So...... NO is the answer. Your pool would not be good for discus even minus the temp and chlorine. On contact with water HCl breaks into H+ and Cl- and messes with the waters buffer ability. The moment you add dechlorinator your going straight back to where you started. You add Muriatic acid to a tank you are going to be adding chlorine ions. Your pool probably tested a smig higher on chlorine after you dumped that gallon in. On top of that it is going to act as a buffer. The chlorine as you know gasses out over time, which is why you always got to keep adding it to pools and spas. As it gases out the water will creep back towards it's original pH and hardness. Ph decrease because it is based on acid/base levels, so of course if you add a gallon of acid your pH is going to go acidic. Hardness is controlled a lot by basic compounds, these react happily with the acid turning them into a new compound. These are all in equilibrium with each other. As you lose chlorine everything will start shifting back towards the original equilibrium, breaking apart to reform original compounds. As this happens your pH goes more basic. Things "swing" in a sense, which is why buffers(on top of this one being an acid and chlorine) are not wanted. You achieve nice water by doing that, but it is not stable or fish safe by any means.

Last edited by Mikaila31; 05-04-2010 at 06:44 PM..
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:39 PM   #17
 
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LOL, aunt kymmie, nice one!

Mikaila31, thanks for telling me that, the information you provided me was very useful! Looks like I'm back with the old RO unit :)
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:33 AM   #18
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikaila31 View Post
Muriatic acid acid is a trade name for HCl or hydrochloric acid. So...... NO is the answer. Your pool would not be good for discus even minus the temp and chlorine. On contact with water HCl breaks into H+ and Cl- and messes with the waters buffer ability. The moment you add dechlorinator your going straight back to where you started. You add Muriatic acid to a tank you are going to be adding chlorine ions. Your pool probably tested a smig higher on chlorine after you dumped that gallon in. On top of that it is going to act as a buffer. The chlorine as you know gasses out over time, which is why you always got to keep adding it to pools and spas. As it gases out the water will creep back towards it's original pH and hardness. Ph decrease because it is based on acid/base levels, so of course if you add a gallon of acid your pH is going to go acidic. Hardness is controlled a lot by basic compounds, these react happily with the acid turning them into a new compound. These are all in equilibrium with each other. As you lose chlorine everything will start shifting back towards the original equilibrium, breaking apart to reform original compounds. As this happens your pH goes more basic. Things "swing" in a sense, which is why buffers(on top of this one being an acid and chlorine) are not wanted. You achieve nice water by doing that, but it is not stable or fish safe by any means.

I agree ,those who reported using this acid reported pH swings after 12 to 24 hours depending on KH of water used, and reported using quite a bit of the acid to maintain desired levels. Is why I suggested checking results after 24 hours ,and also seperate container.
I would consider CO2 injection if plants are to be placed in the tank, R/O tapwater mix,or Peat in the filter for lowering the pH, KH.
Also believe adding acid might increase conductivity or (total dissolved solids) which discus aren't fond of.

Last edited by iamntbatman; 05-05-2010 at 04:26 AM.. Reason: Fixed the quote
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Old 05-08-2010, 05:10 AM   #19
 
Exclamation

Don't let water changes stop you from getting a big tank. You don't need a 20 gallon storage tank for water changes. I have a 135 gallon and I just run a hose out the window to drain the water, then I put the appropriate amount of dechlorinator into the tank, then I attach a hose to my faucet with a connector piece I got from petsolutions.com. I add the water back through the faucet so I can get water that's the same temperature as the tank water. It's a pretty simple and inexpensive method. As far as the tank and equipment though, it can be kind of expensive but its worth it. And as far as 4 feet vs. 6 feet, whats two more feet???? A bigger view right?

Sounds like a good setup though. I've always wanted to try some discus fish.
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:30 AM   #20
 
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MrWynO14, for this tank the water changes aren't that simple. I have to filter my water through an RODI unit to get proper conditiions, I can't use just tap water. For my other tanks, that is pretty much what I do. Just wit buckets because my biggest tank right now is a 29g.
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