Bolivian Ram Question - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 15 Old 01-02-2011, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah that makes sense. I never thought of that. So if I put it back in with another of my tank and then place it back into the 20gal the same day I add my corys it should be ok right? it is coming from a tank with a very high bio-load (adult oscar and large pleko).

Edit: In retrospect, how do people do a fishless cycle then?

  • 55 Gal x2, 30 Gal, 20 Gal, 20 Long, 10 Gal x 3, 2.5 Gal, 1 Gal
  • 4 Beta's, 3 Pleco's, 4 Convicts, 4 Fire Belly Toads, 4 Serpe Tetras, 3 Angel Fish, 5 Tiger Barbs, 2 Rosey Barbs, 2 Cherry Barbs, 2 Odessa Barbs, 2 YoYo Loaches, 3 Ottos, 2 Yellow Labs, 2 Snails, 1 Black Tiger Barb, 1 Pictus Cat, 1 Balla Shark, 1 Rainbow Shark, 1 Ghost Shrimp, 1 Oscar, 2 Chinease Algea Eater,2 Tadpoles
  • 4 Ferrets,3 Gerbils, 2 Cats, 1 Dog
  • 1 Child, 1 Girlfriend
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-02-2011, 12:14 PM
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Yes then it would be okay. Add the media from the established tank to the new tank the same day you add fish. People do a fishless cycle either using fish food or pure ammonia to start the cycle.
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post #13 of 15 Old 01-02-2011, 06:10 PM
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Lisa is correct on the corys (and the other stuff too, for that matter). There is a difference between "cycled" and "established" that I'll try to briefly explain.

Cycled is pretty obvious, it means the nitrification cycle has become settled so the tank is biologically stable. Ammonia produced by fish and bacteria is used by nitrosomonas bacteria that create nitrite, and nitrospira bacteria use the nitrite and nitrate results. The nitrate we remove via weekly partial water changes. Adding live plants improves this, in that the plants grab most of the ammonia ahead of bacteria--which is why new tanks with lots of plants can have fish immediately with no noticeable "cycle"--and because the bacteria will be out-competed by the plants for the ammonia/ammonium, nitrite is minimal as is nitrate. Only if there is a major biological issue will nitrates rise above 20ppm and usually in planted tanks will be much less than this.

"Established" should occur sometime after the above cycling (in the absence of plants, otherwise there is no cycle). It varies depending upon the aquarium--volume, type and number of fish, live plants, wood, and water parameters all influence this. Usually within 2-3 months if no major tampering is done and the tank is allowed to settle naturally.

Corys are often quite sensitive to new tanks, and Corydoras panda especially so in my experience. This is rather interesting, considering this is one of the species that is today commercially raised, and most would expect tank-raised fish to be a bit more "hardy," but not with these. I myself have lost several adding them to fairly new (within a month) tanks, but in tanks older than say 6 weeks, no issue.

A comment on another point you made, that this tank will only house the Ram and corys. I would suggest some "dither" fish for the upper level. All SA cichlids can be somewhat shy on their own, especially as you will only have one [and I agree with 1077 and Lisa that two (unless a compatible pair) would be ill advised for a 20g]. And Bolivians spend all of their time in the lower third of the water column; mine never surface even to feed, only eating from sinking foods (along with the corys). A group of smallish characins would be nice, 6-7 as they are shoaling fish; neon tetra or cardinal tetra [which depends upon water parameters] or one of the Hemigrammus clade [Hemigrammus or Hyphessobrycon species]. Many of these are in our fish profiles [second tab from the left in the blue bar above, or click on shaded names in posts]. Avoid active species that need more swimming room.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If youíre going to take it under your wing then youíre responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #14 of 15 Old 01-02-2011, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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OK, so the panda corys are definately going in. Are you saying you would suggest a small group of the "dither fish" in addition to, or in place of the ram?

I am trying my best to make this tank a good tank, properly balanced, not over stocked, and look lively on the whole. I think I read somewhere that the corys will calm down a lot after they settle in.

So I am thinking I should probably get 6 of one type of the fish you already mentioned, and let the tank cycle and become established, and then add the corys? And then if you were suggesting still having the ram, to add that later on?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I am doing the right things from the beginning.

  • 55 Gal x2, 30 Gal, 20 Gal, 20 Long, 10 Gal x 3, 2.5 Gal, 1 Gal
  • 4 Beta's, 3 Pleco's, 4 Convicts, 4 Fire Belly Toads, 4 Serpe Tetras, 3 Angel Fish, 5 Tiger Barbs, 2 Rosey Barbs, 2 Cherry Barbs, 2 Odessa Barbs, 2 YoYo Loaches, 3 Ottos, 2 Yellow Labs, 2 Snails, 1 Black Tiger Barb, 1 Pictus Cat, 1 Balla Shark, 1 Rainbow Shark, 1 Ghost Shrimp, 1 Oscar, 2 Chinease Algea Eater,2 Tadpoles
  • 4 Ferrets,3 Gerbils, 2 Cats, 1 Dog
  • 1 Child, 1 Girlfriend
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-03-2011, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbirk View Post
OK, so the panda corys are definately going in. Are you saying you would suggest a small group of the "dither fish" in addition to, or in place of the ram?

I am trying my best to make this tank a good tank, properly balanced, not over stocked, and look lively on the whole. I think I read somewhere that the corys will calm down a lot after they settle in.

So I am thinking I should probably get 6 of one type of the fish you already mentioned, and let the tank cycle and become established, and then add the corys? And then if you were suggesting still having the ram, to add that later on?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I am doing the right things from the beginning.
Yes to both questions in the penultimate paragraph. Select the shoaling "dither" fish and put those in first [with live plants? can't remember if plants are to be included, they should be with these type of fish (ram, characin, corys) and there will be no cycling issues]. Then the ram and/or corys as you get them (all corys at once is best, the more the merrier).

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If youíre going to take it under your wing then youíre responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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