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post #1 of 9 Old 03-01-2010, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Angel with FinRot?

2 out of 3 of my angels look like they have fin rot.
They all act healthy and eat well.

The fins look deteriorated with cuts into them in. Not fin nippers, the damage is more in lines cutting into the fins.

Only the angels have this and for 3 weeks now. The fins get slightly better then worse over and over.
I have tried primafix. I hate to use a tetracyclin or sulfa on the whole tank for just 2 little fish. Also, moving angles may shock them so not sure about sick tank option.
IDEAS?

Thanks

55 gal / ph 7.2 / all other parameters near perfect / lots of live plants / no algae (UV and Redtail Sharks)
2 small angels (3 weeks in my tank)
1 medium angel
1 blue ram (love this girl, sadly the male died in the first few days)
12 neon tetras
4 blackstripe tetras
3 platys
3 red tip sharks (great algae eaters)
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post #2 of 9 Old 03-01-2010, 12:31 PM
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I am not much good with disease issues, so my reason for responding to this thread is simply to ask if you can post a photo of one of the angelfish. This may help others with experience recognize whatever it is. Just off the top of my head though, from your description it does not sound like fin rot which usually has a whitish margin. But a photo will help us.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #3 of 9 Old 03-03-2010, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
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This is what they look like. Note the fin damage.

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post #4 of 9 Old 03-03-2010, 10:57 AM
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I am more inclined to think the problem is fin nipping by either the neons or the Black Skirt Tetras [I'm assuming your "blackstripe tetras" are actually Black Skirt Tetras]. Both of these tetras, as indeed almost all tetras, can finnip when placed with tempting fish like angels that are sedate and slow cruisers. Also, keeping the tetras in small groups (4 is not sufficient, should be 6 or preferably more) can encourage this behaviour, as can too small a tank but in a 55g that is not or should not be an issue.

The other thing is the water parameters. A pH of 7.2 is not particularly high on the alkaline side, but it is certainly higher than any of these fish prefer, and that means there can be ever so little stress to the fish, and stress can cause behaviour modifications.

In other words, what I am saying is that a number of negative factors that may be slight individually can, when combined, cause changes to the behaviour of certain fish. The solution here is to remove either the angels or the tetras. If you have a spare tank, removing the angels for a couple weeks and monitoring their condition would be useful. Fish that are subjected to bullying in even small doses will be stressed, and poor health follows down the road.

Having said all that, I am prepared to bow to the advice of someone with more knowledge of disease in case this is a disease that I am not seeing.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #5 of 9 Old 03-03-2010, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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That said, the possible nipping should be at the ends too, like the dangling long narrow parts.

Even the top fin where it tapers to the head is worn down. Would they nip from on top near the head where there is hardly fins when those long dangling fins are there?

Hmm neons or angles, I love my schooling neon tetras and i have only 1 tank.. yet
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post #6 of 9 Old 03-03-2010, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveWhite View Post
That said, the possible nipping should be at the ends too, like the dangling long narrow parts.

Even the top fin where it tapers to the head is worn down. Would they nip from on top near the head where there is hardly fins when those long dangling fins are there?

Hmm neons or angles, I love my schooling neon tetras and i have only 1 tank.. yet
Wait for some other members to comment. This as I said is only my initial thought, because I do not see evidence of fin rot in the photos, at least not from fin rot I have seen in the past. But I am no disease expert...

Another thought on neons and angels, it is usually not good because the opposite can occur, angels will (when grown) consider neons as easy targets for a snack. And a six-inch long angel is going to have an easy time with a one-inch neon.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #7 of 9 Old 03-04-2010, 05:53 AM
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That looks like damage from fin nipping to me, too. The picture with the angel next to the large tetra puts it all in perspective; I can definitely picture that kind of damage being done by nearly equal-sized black skirts continually fin-nipping.

Fin rot is nothing more than an infection, though, so fins already damaged by other sources (nipping or tearing on decor) are prone to fin rot. If I had to choose, I'd move the angels to another tank, keep their water quality pristine and keep an eye out for the visible signs of fin rot (the white edging on the tears that Byron suggested) and treat if needed. If you have a tank in which you can grow out the angels that'd be great. In the meantime, increase the numbers of the black skirts to curb their extra-species nipping habits and re-introduce the angels once they're big enough to intimidate the black skirts. That's not a guaranteed solution by any means; the tetras might just continue to be little jerks. Plus, like Byron pointed out, big angels are bound to eat your neons.

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post #8 of 9 Old 03-04-2010, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveWhite View Post
2 out of 3 of my angels look like they have fin rot.
They all act healthy and eat well.

The fins look deteriorated with cuts into them in. Not fin nippers, the damage is more in lines cutting into the fins.

Only the angels have this and for 3 weeks now. The fins get slightly better then worse over and over.
I have tried primafix. I hate to use a tetracyclin or sulfa on the whole tank for just 2 little fish. Also, moving angles may shock them so not sure about sick tank option.
IDEAS?

Thanks

55 gal / ph 7.2 / all other parameters near perfect / lots of live plants / no algae (UV and Redtail Sharks)
2 small angels (3 weeks in my tank)
1 medium angel
1 blue ram (love this girl, sadly the male died in the first few days)
12 neon tetras
4 blackstripe tetras
3 platys
3 red tip sharks (great algae eaters)

I might first check water with test kit to see that ammonia and nitrites are zero all day ,every day, and nitrates are 20ppm or less between weekly water changes of approx seven or eight gallons.
Looks to me to be fin nipping that platys ,black skirt tetras,and or red tail sharks could be inflicting.

The most important medication in your fish medicine cabinet is.. Clean water.
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post #9 of 9 Old 03-05-2010, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks!

Any it makes sense now, my older and larger angel has no fin issues. He probably can handle the nippers.

Great forum.... and appreciate the help everyone!
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