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Aggressive Angelfish

This is a discussion on Aggressive Angelfish within the Cichlids forums, part of the Freshwater and Tropical Fish category; --> Originally Posted by Blue Originally Posted by JWH If that's the case, would it be possible to add another angel, even if was smaller ...

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Old 04-25-2007, 12:58 AM   #11
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWH
If that's the case, would it be possible to add another angel, even if was smaller and took a little while to grow? That way it would spread out the stress a little more evenly. I don't have a problem with adding another angel if there's room and the new one wouldn't become a snack.
No. The smallest will likely become a runt in time and will be bullied to death in no time. Note that it will even be considered as an intruder to your tank as well so it'll take a few considerable beatings to kill it.
please remember I have a breeding tank with less than 20 gallons
and in that tank I have 3 pairs

there is no aggressions except the spawning time.

I say again you need more fishes.
but with smaller fishes you will have another problems the big aggressive one may kill them.
I agree with our friends said change the current patterns again (although not back to the original patterns)
it is a good trick
and i when I said you need more rooms :

you need more hiding places for the weaker one
the more powerfully one is preparing a new place for spawning but when there is no opposite sex there he or she ( and I think it is he because if it was a she the spawning organ comes out and it is like a pipe and it is not pointed.) and there is no aggression.
so i recommend buy at list 4 more fishes from a same tank ( to make chance for opposite sex)
OR
change the tank pattern and make more rooms with big plants or rocks.
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:59 AM   #12
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWH
If that's the case, would it be possible to add another angel, even if was smaller and took a little while to grow? That way it would spread out the stress a little more evenly. I don't have a problem with adding another angel if there's room and the new one wouldn't become a snack.
No. The smallest will likely become a runt in time and will be bullied to death in no time. Note that it will even be considered as an intruder to your tank as well so it'll take a few considerable beatings to kill it.
please remember I have a breeding tank with less than 20 gallons
and in that tank I have 3 pairs

there is no aggressions except the spawning time.

I say again you need more fishes.
but with smaller fishes you will have another problems the big aggressive one may kill them.
I agree with our friends said change the current patterns again (although not back to the original patterns)
it is a good trick
and i when I said you need more rooms :

you need more hiding places for the weaker one
the more powerfully one is preparing a new place for spawning but when there is no opposite sex there he or she ( and I think it is he because if it was a she the spawning organ comes out and it is like a pipe and it is not pointed.) and there is no aggression.
so i recommend buy at list 4 more fishes from a same tank ( to make chance for opposite sex)
OR
change the tank pattern and make more rooms with big plants or rocks.
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Old 04-25-2007, 08:27 AM   #13
JWH
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arash
I agree with our friends said change the current patterns again (although not back to the original patterns)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arash
you need more hiding places for the weaker one
We're going to pick up some bubblers tonight. I added many more hiding places before posting to this forum, so there should be plenty. I think that was part of the problem before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arash
I say again you need more fishes.
but with smaller fishes you will have another problems the big aggressive one may kill them.
I'm also going to see if I can find a larger angelfish tonight. Our LPS gets regular shipments, and sometimes they get larger fish. Also, the manager told us that occasionally they have people surrender their fish if they get too big (a problem with angels - most people just aren't informed). There are a few stores within a 20 mile radius, so we might be in for a bit of a drive (we've done it before, anyway). We'll have a back-up tank set up for the new arrival if things turn out badly.
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Old 04-25-2007, 10:43 AM   #14
 
aggressive angel fish

Hi JWH, and welcome.
I have found that much of what one reads from books appears to be based on the authors experience. If you read one or two books then the information is based upon one or two individuals. This is also based on general knowledge such as what is known to be the norm. The forums also produce the experience of individuals. The advantage of forums is you glean many more individual experiences concerning the same topics.
I suggest you read as many posts from forums as possible to gain as much knowledge from others experiences concerning any particular problem.
I mention this because I am fairly new to keeping discus. I have a 28 gal. tank and wanted to keep several discus (first time) with 2 angels, with some cardinals and cleaning specimens. I read much conflicting information, both from books and forums. Generally the consensus was mixed. Information told me it was not wise to mix angels with discus. other sources told me it was a myth that angels cannot live together peacefully with discus. Their parameters are very similar, so I thought i would keep what i wanted. I had trouble with the discus! some were bullying the others. This I read was normal due to territorial behaviour. The angels ( about 2") seemed peaceful and uninterested in the other occupants, until they grew to about 3" or so, not counting finnage. They then started to attack the discus to the extent the latter hid away all the time! The were also attacking themselves quite aggressively. I think they were both females by the large abdomen area that developed on both of them. I had to make a decision! get rid of the angels or discus. I have more discus than angels, and although I love both, I decided to take the angels back.
My experience has taught me that you should not forget angels are ciclids! As such they may display their recognised temperament, namely aggression.
Many years ago I kept several tanks, one was a totally community tank with a couple of angels. I had no problems with the angels whatsoever. They were peaceful. I agree with the info you have recieved here about several angels being better than one or two only. As it is difficult to know what the sex of angels is when purchased, whether aggression is going to be due to particular sexes is a gamble anyway. Also the individual temperament of individual fish also varies.
My personal view on your situation is that you will more than likely continue with some aggression from your angels due to whatever causes outlined here. Basically, you do need as much space for your angels as you can provide, allowing for their eventual size. I fail to see the benefit of keeping fish that are going to be continually hiding away due to aggression from other fish.
You could try taking the aggressive fish back to your dealer and exchanging them for different ones. You may be lucky to replace them with a different sex, or a more placid specimen. This could take several tries though!
As said earlier, the individual experiences from many aquarists posting on forums give a wide range of experiences. You will, in the end, settle for what you learn by your own.
Good luck with your journey.

silent world
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Old 04-25-2007, 11:44 AM   #15
JWH
 
I have read as many books, postings, and forums that I could find; I have done hours and hours of research on angles before we got them and after we began having problems. This is the first time in many years that I have had any problems with aggression in angelfish (I've had them before and have kept fish since I was a young child - almost everyone in my family had an aquarium); until now, the only fish I have had agression problems with have been Bala sharks.

We've had these angelfish for quite awhile, and we've already decided that we will do everything possible to avoid giving them up - that isn't even an option for us. If we have to, we'll get another large tank before we give them up (we'd rather avoid that if possible, but not if it means giving them up).

As I said before, the aggression started when we moved them to a larger space - we almost doubled the tank size and made sure that we got a tall aquarium so that they could spread out.

Also, the two angels are already full grown.

I'm planning to try the suggestions already posted here (those that I hadn't already tried before posting).
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Old 04-26-2007, 05:59 AM   #16
 
Re: aggressive angel fish

ok
what next
and remember with more fish you have more chance of both sex male and female

although this post is not about discus and angels
I'll answer my friend:
the only real conflict with discus and angel is that the dis cus is the most shying cichlid and if any fish eat more or be larger or smarter then discus could not eat well and this will make the fish weak and weak fish will sooner become a sick fish the sickness may kill it
the discus must be bigger than other fish in tank about two times

the same problem will happen to you if you buy some small fish of the same type the bigger one because of aggressions and eating more make the little fish weak

we are waiting for good news
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Old 04-26-2007, 08:18 AM   #17
JWH
 
Hi, all, thanks for your suggestions.

Last night we got a pleasant surprise! We went to buy a new baby angel in hopes of something working out; instead, someone had recently surrendered a larger angel. He's still a little smaller then the full grown ones (about an inch or two smaller in body size), but thus far he's doing well (we named him Trip to keep the "anglefish" idea up). The three are still trying to decide who is dominant, but I took the aggressive one out before introducing the new one; that seemed to help quite a bit. I've been pleasantly surprised - the new one actually seems to be fighting for dominance but in a way I've never seen before. He's almost being sneaky about it (picking on the larger one, then hiding, going in under him instead of the side, and standing up for himself - to a point - when the larger one is being nasty). Also, the one who was previously getting beat up has joined with the new guy and they defend each other (maybe pairing up? They would make BEAUTIFUL babies). The nice thing is that sometimes there is peace in the tank with all three swimming together. We were really lucky last night. Because the fish was surrendered, we got to take him home for free, though we had to promise the manager that we already had an angel tank set up and ready for him.

As a note, we got him at Petco. The one around here is actually wonderful - the fish staff is (for the most part) knowledgeable, and it seems that the ones who aren't soon get transfered to another area where they can do less damage (unless they're willing to learn). The tanks are always clean, and the person who is mainly in charge of the fish is obsessive about checking on each fish and acclimating them slowing when they first arrive.

One weird note: the stone that we got pushed water back through the tube, filling the bubbler with water. Needless to say, we're going to try another stone tonight!

Oh, and the new arrival is a Koi - I've never had one before and he/she just brightens up the tank! I hope that things work out well - we're hoping for at least an "uneasy peace."
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