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Banjo Catfish?

This is a discussion on Banjo Catfish? within the Catfish forums, part of the Freshwater and Tropical Fish category; --> Yes, Was/is Farlowella vitatta that I refferred to, and most often for sale in my neck of the woods. Wild caught not often seen ...

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Old 04-18-2012, 03:52 AM   #11
 
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Yes, Was/is Farlowella vitatta that I refferred to, and most often for sale in my neck of the woods.
Wild caught not often seen here of any species of this family.(or many other's)
Have also kept Royal Farlowella over the year's and as mentioned ,,seldom see them in aquariums much over seven inches.
Are largely sedentary (inactive) fishes, that therefore don't need a lot of room though larger quarter's are alway's bettter in my view.
I think many people srtuggle with these fish by placing them in immature tank's with no algae which is their preferred/primary food, along with keeping them in too warm of temperatures.
76 degree's F would be comfortable temp for them in my expierience.
I have kept these fish in moderately hard water without issue and had one that was several years old before I unwittingly threw it out while removing large dying swordplant during my early attempt's at planted aquariums.
As mentioned earlier,,they will do better in more mature tanks than in newly established systems.IMHO

Last edited by 1077; 04-18-2012 at 03:57 AM..
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:35 AM   #12
 
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Would whiptails be more tolerant of warm water? My plans so far include fireheads and hatchetfish, which I think would prefer 78-80F.
Also, I'd prefer to opt for the less sensitive species, I understand water chemistry, cycling and tank maturation, but this is my first time putting it all into practice.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:19 AM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
Would whiptails be more tolerant of warm water? My plans so far include fireheads and hatchetfish, which I think would prefer 78-80F.
Also, I'd prefer to opt for the less sensitive species, I understand water chemistry, cycling and tank maturation, but this is my first time putting it all into practice.
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I can only comment on what I have observed with respect to temp as I did in previous post.
My theory is.. that temp ranges listed for many species of fish could indicate different seasons when fish were collected,different times of day fish were collected, or different depths.(many species were wild caught year's ago)
I am near certain that temps were recorded at places where these fishes were captured back when many species were wild caught, but it is unclear to me whether any time was spent measuring temps over a longer period of time such as afore mentioned season's,times of day ,or depths.
In the wild fishes can move from warmer shallow water, to shaded area's that are cooler or depth's that are cooler if available. Rainy season often brings cooler water to fishes in the wild as well, but in glass box of water,,temps are not as likely to fluctuate and so I choose to keep fishes in middle range of temp's listed for nearly all species.
Catfishes and Plecos of many species often enjoy,cool, oxygen rich water and warmer temps mean less dissolved oxygen so this too is consideration for me.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:21 AM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
Would whiptails be more tolerant of warm water? My plans so far include fireheads and hatchetfish, which I think would prefer 78-80F.
Also, I'd prefer to opt for the less sensitive species, I understand water chemistry, cycling and tank maturation, but this is my first time putting it all into practice.
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That is too warm for the named fish, assuming by Firehead you mean Hemigrammus bleheri or the similar Petitella georgiae. We generally call these Rummynose in NA. Another reason why common names are so confusing.

Back to the temp. As noted in the profiles for all these fish, they basically have a range of low 70's to upper 70's F. And here let me comment on the temperature ranges. In our profiles which I wrote, the ranges are the temperatures at which the species--as far as I can ascertain--will be healthy and live a normal lifespan (all else being equal). This data comes from ichthyologists and biologists who have maintained these fish. I never use temperature ranges from their habitat, except if specifically mentioned for some purpose. Same applies to the GH and pH ranges.

The Rineloricaria parva should be no higher than 77F. I have 4 in my 115g which runs 77-78F, and the oldest I've had for four years (though that is certainly not "old" for this species) but they are doing very well. The Farlowella vitatta I maintain at the same temperature, though this species can tolerate a bit warmer. My three F. vitatta in the 70g which I've had for 3 years to date spawn regularly, and I have raised some of the fry to adults, all in tanks at 77-79F. The male is guarding a clutch of some 40 eggs as we speak. And the pencilfish and Caracidium are hovering mid-water just waiting for the eggs to hatch.

While the various species will manage in the ranges given in the profiles, keeping them lower rather than at the upper end is always best. The fish have to work harder to maintain their physiological balances internally the warmer the water, and this takes more energy and simply wears them out faster. This is detailed in the article on stress I posted earlier this week.

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Old 04-18-2012, 03:26 PM   #15
 
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Oh wow, I need to double check my facts.. I was planning on reading the fish stress article later. I'm fine with providing a lower temperature.. Betta seem to be the opposite of everything, we always recommend 78-80F with 76 being the minimum. I always thought 78F was the average temperature for most tropical fish because of this...
Hemigrammus bleheri is the species I want the most. With either one of the two common hatchetfish species.

I've always read that high temperature = healthier more active fish. And low temperature = slow growing, less immune fish. So now I'm starting to get really confused. I always understood goldfish have high oxygen needs, which is why they do better in cooler water.
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:30 PM   #16
 
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Quote:
Oh wow, I need to double check my facts.. I was planning on reading the fish stress article later. I'm fine with providing a lower temperature.. Betta seem to be the opposite of everything, we always recommend 78-80F with 76 being the minimum. I always thought 78F was the average temperature for most tropical fish because of this...
Most of the time, a "community" tank is good around 77-79F. This is very general. But of my 7 tanks, 4 are at 77F, one is at 75F, and one at 78F. The 75F has slightly cooler-water species like my pygmy corys. I have previously had tanks kept around 80F when I had Chocolate Gourami and related species. Betta need warmth too.

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Hemigrammus bleheri is the species I want the most. With either one of the two common hatchetfish species.
I participate in so many threads of similar subjects i frequently get them mixed. Reading back through this one, we are dealing with a 20g tank, correct? That being said, I would not get Rummynose, they should have a 3-foot tank (30g) minimum. This species likes to swim. And it always does better with more, say a dozen.

Hatchetfish, for a 20g you are restricted to the species in Carnegiella. The others are larger, like the common Silver Hatchetfish in the profile; I have a group of these in my 115g and they do swim throughout the tank much more than the Carnegiella species which remain at the surface almost constantly and swim much less. But these too need larger groups, so 8 or more of which ever species. Carnegiella marthae is the plainer and slightly smaller, compared to the Marble Carnegiella strigata. Then there is Carnegiella myersi, the Pygmy, but not a fish I would recommend. I have three times had this species, in large groups, and every time they sort of die off over several months. My group of 11 that I acquired last October is down to 4 now. They are very, very delicate. My C. marthae and C. strigata do much better, I've had the latter live 8+ years. My losses with either of these two species usually only occurs when they jump out at night if I leave the tank cover back just an inch. It happens.

Quote:
I've always read that high temperature = healthier more active fish. And low temperature = slow growing, less immune fish. So now I'm starting to get really confused. I always understood goldfish have high oxygen needs, which is why they do better in cooler water.
Agree, cooler water has more oxygen; the warmer the water the less oxygen it can hold. I wouldn't agree with the first part though, but it is taken out of context perhaps. As you will learn from the stress article, keeping a fish at its optimum temperature allows the homeostasis to function at its best, and this complex internal process--or more accurately series of related processes--will run smoother at the optimum temp, just as it will at the preferred GH and pH for the species. Moving outside these ranges increases the strain on the fish's physiological metabolism. And that takes more energy, affects digestion, immune system, etc. Within the given range for a species, staying in the mid range will almost always be less stressful on the fish.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:37 PM   #17
 
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The tank is 20 gallons yes..
I'm really at a loss, I think they were the smallest tetra I could find (that is common in shops) that will do well at pH 7.2 and hardness 14dH. I had my heart set on one of the tetra with red faces, any species. What about a school of Nematobrycon palmeri, emperor tetra? Hopefully they have those at my store.

Hatchetfish wise.. I like the Carnegiella strigata, but I think they'd be too delicate in my water. There's also Gasteropelecus levis, which I read only grows to 3.5cm, but I would have no confidence identifying these fish in a store that just sells "hatchet fish". Is there any way to tell species apart well? C. marthae has a lateral line that could be used as an identifying feature, that's all I see...

This does not seem to be going well for me, but I'd rather just do the best plan of action than be stubborn for a fish I want and have it backfire later.

I had two other stocking plans that I had scratched out before..
My first was a species only tank of Pseudomugil furcatus, with perhaps 10 fish, along with my gold tylo snails.

My other plan was a coolwater tank, I wanted Danio margaritatus, but they need extremely soft water which I cannot provide... Most small danios seem to prefer softer water.
Another nice coolwater species is Tanichthys albonubes, white cloud mountain minnow, which I'm sure I could keep easily, they have such stunning displays.. But I would want something in the lower portion of the tank to go along with them. Minnows are also very active from what I hear, would 30" of length be enough for them? Along with a lone Macropodus opercularis (or any of the paradise fish, not sure which one my store stocks..)?

Sorry for all the questions!!
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:36 PM   #18
 
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You are keeping me hopping... but I love it, so never fear.

Quote:
The tank is 20 gallons yes..
I'm really at a loss, I think they were the smallest tetra I could find (that is common in shops) that will do well at pH 7.2 and hardness 14dH. I had my heart set on one of the tetra with red faces, any species. What about a school of Nematobrycon palmeri, emperor tetra? Hopefully they have those at my store.
N. palmeri need some space too, and they are very active swimmers; I have about 12 of them that hatched out in my 90g [I got rid of the parents to another aquarist] and they are right in there with the active Black Ruby Barb and congo Tetra. Most of my tanks are quiet, with the fish scarcely moving, but not this one.

Rummys need very soft and acidic water or they will not last, they are wild caught. [Heiko Bleher, a member of this forum and personal aquaintance, discovered them and they are named after him.] There are some tetra that would suit your tank and water, or one could dilute the GH a bit, but I won't go into all that now.

Quote:
Hatchetfish wise.. I like the Carnegiella strigata, but I think they'd be too delicate in my water. There's also Gasteropelecus levis, which I read only grows to 3.5cm, but I would have no confidence identifying these fish in a store that just sells "hatchet fish". Is there any way to tell species apart well? C. marthae has a lateral line that could be used as an identifying feature, that's all I see...
I've never seen G. levis locally. The one time a store had wild caught imported hatchets they named "Levi's hatchetfish" they were actually C. myersi. I've done a decent bit of research on the Gasteropelecidae family. The species in Carnegiella have no adipose fin; the five species in the other two genera have an adipiose fin, so that is one distinction. I'm not certain, but I don't think any of these are commercially raised, although the common silver hatchetfish may be in SE Asia.

Quote:
This does not seem to be going well for me, but I'd rather just do the best plan of action than be stubborn for a fish I want and have it backfire later.
This is sensible and to your credit as an aquarist.

Quote:
I had two other stocking plans that I had scratched out before..
My first was a species only tank of , with perhaps 10 fish, along with my gold tylo snails.

My other plan was a coolwater tank, I wanted Danio margaritatus, but they need extremely soft water which I cannot provide... Most small danios seem to prefer softer water.
Another nice coolwater species is Tanichthys albonubes, white cloud mountain minnow, which I'm sure I could keep easily, they have such stunning displays.. But I would want something in the lower portion of the tank to go along with them. Minnows are also very active from what I hear, would 30" of length be enough for them? Along with a lone Macropodus opercularis (or any of the paradise fish, not sure which one my store stocks..)?
Yes, many of the "dwarf" species in cyprinids are wild caught and naturally occur in soft water, though there are a few exceptions. But the cooler tank is one thought. Along with the White Clouds, there are Hillstream Loach (check the profile). You need some current in the tank, but that is easily achieved with a HOB filter.

What's wrong with Pseudomugil furcatus? These are beauties and ideal to your water, and a small tank.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:50 PM   #19
 
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Aha, I think I'll back off from the amazon for now then.
Hillstream loach is one of my dream fish. I remember reading that they require double filtration to get enough oxygen, so I'd probably need to buy a second filter, I only have an Aqua Clear 20 right now. Hillstream loach and mountain minnows would be stunning, but I feel they'd be out of place in the planted look I was going for, especially the loach. I love river tanks, but I want to do planted ones for my first few.

I do love the furcatus, they are simply gorgeous and quite tempting. They'd even be semi-geographically accurate with my tylo snails, and appreciate a well planted tank. Someone that keeps them on the betta site said I could only have 10 in my 20 gallon due to their activity. I was kind of hoping for more than one species in the tank, unless I could fit in more furcatus, it'd be neat to have a larger school, it's a good look for small fish. I'd probably start with 6 and get them a spawn mop and raise some fry. Thinking about it, I think I could fit in 1-2 Rineloricaria parva in with 10 furcatus, keeping the water at 75-76F.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:05 PM   #20
 
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Aha, I think I'll back off from the amazon for now then.
Hillstream loach is one of my dream fish. I remember reading that they require double filtration to get enough oxygen, so I'd probably need to buy a second filter, I only have an Aqua Clear 20 right now. Hillstream loach and mountain minnows would be stunning, but I feel they'd be out of place in the planted look I was going for, especially the loach. I love river tanks, but I want to do planted ones for my first few.

I do love the furcatus, they are simply gorgeous and quite tempting. They'd even be semi-geographically accurate with my tylo snails, and appreciate a well planted tank. Someone that keeps them on the betta site said I could only have 10 in my 20 gallon due to their activity. I was kind of hoping for more than one species in the tank, unless I could fit in more furcatus, it'd be neat to have a larger school, it's a good look for small fish. I'd probably start with 6 and get them a spawn mop and raise some fry. Thinking about it, I think I could fit in 1-2 Rineloricaria parva in with 10 furcatus, keeping the water at 75-76F.
I've not personally kept any of the rainbowfish, but from my research I don't see them as troublesome, so how about a group of the Pseudomugil furcatus and a group of the Iriatherina werneri? The former prefer the surface, the latter (I believe) more mid-water. For the substrate, yes on Rineloricaria parva--and especially the smaller and reddish one that is in our profiles as Red Lizard Whiptail. I have a trio of these, they are rather neat.
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