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Mycobacteria

60K views 213 replies 39 participants last post by  FishTankExpert 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
In light of the recent posts, and all the misinformation on the web and floating around in this forum, let me set a few records straight.

Mycos is nothing to be considered lightly. I have been in regular conversation with fish pathologists for almost a year now, and it is a very serious disease and in most of the fish available at your local pet shop. Their guess is 70% of the TRADE. That means ALL fish. You need to read the article I have created at the link below, and take it very serious, as it is based on the research of people that look at mycos for a living:



I have friends that have dealt or are dealing with this. FROM ONE FREAKING FISH I destroyed 3 years of work, over 500 bettas in one afternoon. I could not even enter my fish room for days. I dealt with fin rot, lesions, lifted gill plates, dropsy and the list goes on. I finally contacted a fish pathologist and sent THIRTY fish representing every tank or system I had. The ones with lesions tested positive for mycos right off the lesions they presented.

ALL were diced up and tested and ALL tested positive for mycos. Fish from 30 days to 9 months of age. It was recommended I send more fish to the leading researcher in mycobacteria here in the US to determine the strain. They were unable to grow the bacteria to determine what strain I was dealing with and was told that is not unusual for many mycos strains. It took DNA to determine what I had. My results and currently what many betta breeders are dealing with is M. Triplex. Thats right.. something you have NOT heard of. Google it. And you will find it shows up in people.

If you read the article I posted you will see there are different types of mycos. Some move fast and others a bit slower. But the end result is THERE IS NO CURE and THE FISH WILL DIE. Some mycos can be managed as there is no way to completely eradicate it. But you destroy the pathogenic ones and manage water conditions to reduce affect of the others.

I was told Lysol will kill it. Not knowing there were different Lysols I ran a major heavy solution through my barracks for TWO WEEKS. I drained that down, ran water through it a few days, drained it down and ran a super concentrated bleach solution through another TWO WEEKS. I brought the system back online and put some of my most promising fish in the barracks and EACH ONE CAME DOWN WITH THE DISEASE AGAIN! The ones still in the tank never got it. So DO NOT tell me you can bleach or use vinegar on this. DO NOT tell me it is not that serious.

So once again I have had to destroy some absolutely beautiful fish. More discussion with the pathologists and we found I did not use a proper cleaner. I sure as heck do now. EVERYTHING.., nets, hoses, tanks, lights water test vials.. EVERYTHING gets hit with the anti TB chemical after EVERY use. My trash cans for water are broken down and sprayed every few weeks. Even my hands between tanks. I set a timer as there has to be 5 minutes contact time. I refuse to destroy any more fish. I have clean stock now and I am going to keep it that way.

In the meantime. My recommendations.. for all it is worth..

Get a hold of a local vet or go online and get something that will kill TB. The article I linked to has a link to chemicals that will kill mycobacteria. Treat EVERYTHING in your fish room no matter how small. And treat any tank with it when you break it down... sick fish or not. Keep the stuff on hand and act like it is ever present to get a foothold in your fish room. Practice good bio-security and you should prevent it or get rid of it. If you have sick fish - destroy them, nuke everything and start fresh being more careful.
 
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#152 ·
History and Transmission
Once a population of fish is infected, the organism is magnified, creating a vicious cycle of infection, disease and death. Since there is no effective treatment for infected fish, disease prevention with the use of quarantine and disinfection protocols is vitally important. Infected fish release the organism from skin and gill lesions and shed them from the gastrointestinal tract. Bacteria are also released from internal organs when sick fish die and decompose. Infection can be spread when fish have direct contact with infective material or ingest infected tissue.

In addition to fish to fish or horizontal transmission, vertical transmission meaning mother to offspring, also occurs. Less well known in egg laying species the vertical transmission is well documented in live-bearing fish. Until more research is done, and information is available, one should assume vertical transmission is possible and act accordingly. Infected broodstock will infect their young. It makes little sense to produce infected fish, as fish from infected parents will likely be stunted, have chronic mortality, pose a risk to other fish and those handling them.

Getting Rid of It
Any tank or system where fish were housed, that becomes infected, should be depopulated and completely disinfected with appropriate agents. Although one can take steps to decrease the severity of infection in a group of fish, the disease cannot be reasonably treated and cannot be cured. There are no FDA-approved treatments for mycobacteriosis in fish, nor are there any unapproved products that are effective. Depopulation of mycobacterium-infected broodstock is recommended. Fish populations that carry the infection need to be euthanized. Otherwise infected fish will be a constant source of infection to other fish and those that handle them. Maintaining a population of mycobacterium-positive fish makes little sense. There are many options for euthanizing fish. The important point is that animals are killed quickly and in a way that minimizes discomfort and distress.

What about my Lines?
For a serious breeder that has several generations of work invested in infected fish, there is a possible other option. If the fish will actually breed, you can get the off spring and raise them very separate from other fish. Once the spawn is doing well it is advisable to destroy the parents. Bear in mind these fry are probably infected from their parents so watch for stunted growth and bent top lines as they grow. Constantly look for signs of the disease in this bunch. Make sure any nets, hoses and such are completely disinfected after each use. Destroy any fish that shows signs of mycos as soon as it is detected to keep the bacteria from gaining ground. I would work your "clean" fish first then feed and clean the potentially infected offspring. Be very careful if you have other fish and systems that are clean not to cross contaminate.

As this batch of fry grow, breed the best at the earliest opportunity. Fish can be bred anywhere from 8-12 weeks of age. Remember, they came from infected parents and are probably carrying the disease. What you are trying to do is get a spawn before the disease takes hold of the fish and the egg and sperm are affected by the bacteria. You also want to avoid having it enter the water column. Do not use as breeders any fish showing signs of the disease as it will be shed in the water. And I would not allow a spawn attempt to go for long as the feces can also be introducing the bacteria to your sterile spawn tank, exposing the fry as they grow. If you get nothing after 3 days, break it down and completely sterilize it before setting it up again. Use a turkey baster and keep feces out of the tank. Do not forget to sterilize the baster. Yes this will all be a pain, and you may have to compromise on you choice of breeders, but it is a way to keep a line going if you do not want to completely destroy it.

Again watch for the development of the mycos in the F2 generation. Poor growth and bumpy top lines are a sign you still have it. Once you get a good F2 going it is wise to destroy all of F1. They came from infected parents and you increase your risk of not getting rid of the disease. Ideally that F2 generation will be clean. Use good biosecurity in your fish room, as you must proceed as if you still have the active bacteria until your fish prove clean. If all goes well you now have Mycobacteria fee fish and the line preserved.

If you decide to do the F1 cross with only one fish that is infected, you may increase your chance of success. But you must remember this fish will now be exposed to the disease and should not be put back in contact with any other fish. There is a high probability this fish will develop the disease and succumb to it. So only do the breeding aware of the risks to the clean fish used.

Disinfection protocols
Cleaning a system that is known to be infected with mycobacterium requires extra effort. To completely eliminate mycobacteria from a system it must be depopulated and completely broken down to its component parts. All filter media and disposable materials should be discarded, including plastic tanks. The system should be thoroughly cleaned with bleach to remove and break down organic material and the biofilm that may harbor organisms inside pipes and in other inaccessible areas. Then it is essential to treat all surfaces in the system with a mycobacteriocidal agent.

Mycobacterial organisms are more resistant to disinfection protocols than most any bacteria encountered in aquatic settings. A waxy coating in the cell wall of mycobacteria gives them extra protection from many common disinfectants, including bleach. Effective mycobacteriocidal agents include Lysol® (1% benzyl-4-chlorophenol-2-phenylphenol), sodium chlorite, and ethyl alcohol at 50 or 70 percent concentrations, but not 30 percent (which requires at least 10 minutes of contact time). Chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite), even at concentrations as high as 50,000 mg/L, is only moderately effective in reducing the number of mycobacterial agents in the environment. Roccal® and Virkon®-S are ineffective. Please note the Lysol® is not the common household cleaner but a hospital strength one.

Other products that will kill the mycobacteria are listed HERE. You may talk to your local vet and explain what you are dealing with and see if he can get you a product that will work. Whatever product you use it must be used on everything. Nets, tanks, hoses and what ever else you may use in the fish room. Think water test kit tubes, eye droppers and the drain you run your water changes through. Most any product will require a certain amount of contact time to be effective. Don't take any short cuts. Since these products will also kill fish you will want to rinse the items well with water. Then come back with a strong bleach solution over the entire surface. The bleach solution can be rinsed well and the items used. If you have concern about the bleach, a soak in any water conditioner will remove the bleach.

Preventing Infection
Preventing disease is always more cost-effective and rewarding than treating it. This is especially true in the case of mycobacterium, as no vaccine or satisfactory treatment is available.Having to destroy your fish and start over is not fun. So take steps to keep this and other diseases out of your fish room.

Biosecurity in aquaculture means that aquatic organisms are protected from the introduction of new diseases. One of the basic tenets of biosecurity is avoiding the introduction of sick animals in the first place. This is accomplished by controlling the source of new animals before introducing them to established groups, and quarantining new animals upon arrival. Fish should be purchased only from trusted sources. New fish should be quarantined from established populations for at least 30 days. Even then it may not be wise to add them to any closed system.

Going forward you want to be careful about not getting this or anything else your fish room, so develop a habit of disinfecting everything before use on another tank or fish. Use one net per fish and thoroughly disinfect everything before moving on to another tank, including your hands. This is a good article on Bio-security in Aquaculture.

Moving On
As you can see, a diagnosis of Mycobacteria in a fish room can be heartbreaking. Take steps to prevent it, and if by chance you get it, it CAN be eradicated and you can move past it. And if you are one that likes to rescue sick fish from local pet shops, you may want to carefully consider what you are exposing yourself to the possibility of. Ask any one that has had to destroy fish and go through the thorough cleaning of their tanks, and they will tell you not one fish is worth the exposure.

I will be adding a photo library so you can identify this in your fish room. I have many links that I have saved and will be going through them and adding the links here. Going forward I will continue to add links to any articles I find relevant to this disease.


Some Technical Articles ** going to have to search for these.. can't do links.

Distribution and genetic characterization of Mycobacterium chelonae in laboratory zebrafish Danio rerio

Biochemical, molecular, and virulence characteristics of selectMycobacterium marinum - click the link for the full text in pdf format

Molecular systematics support the revival of Mycobacterium salmoniphilum - bottom of the page click for full article.

Mycobacterial infection in aquarium fish

Mycobacterial Infections of Fish
 
#156 ·
Sorry for interrupted, but what do you think this article.

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2012/04/tb-in-fish-mycobacterium-tuberculosis.html

My boy ooks like same disease.
A friend of Coppermoon that was told what I had and that her fish also were positive to mycos. The triplex comments were added after my results were given.

I agree with him on many of his articles and have learned a lot from them.. but do not feel giving the hope of treatment is fair because it is not accurate. It is a death sentence for the fish. I looked for hope.. but there really was none. I was in denial for over a week.. then finally had to accept what needed done. People are treated for this at least 9 month to a year. No way a fish will be cured in a few months. If the scientist can not save a commercial breeder or research fish.. then the reality is they could not save mine.
 
#159 ·
back in 2004 me n a friend form a small fish company ,we were inporting fish most from thailand the fish took 2 plane trips to get here at first they would be a day or 2 late not too much worry but in 2005 they was a storm that shout down miami for 3 days , the stock we had order were from guppys to koi fish, 5days after we got the fish 50% of the stock was dead n 25% was dieing ,so we set about to save wat can be save ,that when the problem started at frist it was just some of the new fish then i notice some of the older stock geting sick too to make it short u can mix 2 buggs n make a new 1 sometimes , the diseases was spred by the net so then we had about 15 nets to use so if this myco can be pass to us then we pass it back to the fish it will be stronger type wat i think u should have done was set up new filler sys, back when we had that strange out break even a drop of water off a net ment trouble at the time so when all the sick fish had die out i drain all the tanks givein them a full cleaning, i still use live plants ,i bleach n sun the gravel i use dump all the fliters couse u cant realy bleach them ,i'm glad u made that post it a bit frightening but all true at the same time ,i'll keep tabs on the post couse now i have a new team of guys to work with n some of them dont do any thing at all to improve wat they know
 
#161 ·
That's interesting because Seagrest is widely regarded as one of the best wholesalers around. I read an article in TFK just a few months ago and their quarantine system is intensive. I'm sorry but I still have a hard time believing that so many fish are showing myco lesions and yet no one is doing anything about it. If this was as prevalent as you say, then I would have to believe more would be said about it in places like TFK and that, furthermore, if so many fish were being imported with a disease that is potentially transmittable to humans, that imports would have been stopped or curbed severely.

What I basically mean is please stop saying so many fish have myco when you cannot prove it, BB. All you are doing is scaring people. Let's just deal with confirmed cases.

Oh, Coppermoon, I am so sorry about what you and BB have had to go through. I honestly am.
 
#165 ·
Thank you. I do think the main reason this is going on now is that people don't know what to look for. Both BB and I got fish from US breeders. I contacted the breeder I got my fish from and this breeder had no idea. Neither BB nor I meant to create mass hysteria, but for us to loose so much work and then have it blown off (said with tongue in cheek)...for me, that was more then I could take. I am a small breeder compared to BB, so I can't imagine what she went through to destroy her fish. I put all my babies in a single bowl, told them I was so sorry, added the clove oil, covered the bowl and cried all the way to work. I got home and cried again when I bagged them up. We just want to make sure that correct care info is out there. I'm glad to see the post of something a little easier access, to kill this with.
 
#166 ·
Myates- all but the betta were in the same tanks. The guppy platy tank has live plats added recently as we'll as 40% water changes weekly so it can't be water quality. The columnar is type stuff that basement betas mentioned was what was on my platy? It was little white bits hanging off her gills. Is it safe to add another fish to my betas old tank? Once I do a 100% water change or two of course.
 
#168 ·
I have a question about disinfecting... You can't disinfect silk plants, can you? Like, what will soak up the cleaning agents and what won't? If I were to soak silk plants in like, vinegar or bleach or something that will kill TB, is it possible to get it out of the silk plants and decor? Or does everything but the tank need to be tossed?

Thanks.
 
#172 ·
I would say yes silk plants can be cleaned with the TB killer. You will have to take extra measures to make sure you get ALL the cleaner off. I am using it on live plants and wiping each leaf, stem, root off. Plants are pissed at me, but are coming back (cept the wisteria). My cleaner..I can feel it on the plants, so I continue to rinse under running water until it is gone.
 
#170 ·
columnaris is little white fluff hanging off of your fish isn't it?
 
#171 ·
The picture I posted I thought the grey fluff was columnaris. IT IS MYCOS. If you see that stuff in your fish, and it does not respond to meds for columnaris.. you have mycos in your fish. The information has been pasted in this thread on how to deal with it. Not every one can put down fish. I look for the smallest trace of it and act immediately. So far we are good. I still have 3 large barrack systems to clean and it is going to take a lot of time to make sure every nook and cranny gets hit with the proper concentration of antibacterial. NOT going to do this again because I was not thorough.
 
#175 ·
I have seen columnaris that did not even show the usual signs (fluff, patches, sores, deteriorating scales) until she already had dropsy. Only true sign: lethargy. And I was too late. I am so used to the common signs :/

I have to agree that not every hard to kill disease is this disease. Be reminded as there are always different strains of the worst diseases, some strains you can kill... Some get stronger. Some are easily mistaken for something else. Making sure that YOUR fish are in tip top condition, makes it a lot easier to know when something is wrong. An already sick fish... You won't ever know if he is "lazy" (i.e. cold water) or really sick.

BUT if you do feel you suspect a contagious disease has hit, just throw everything out. All else fails, throw it out. Gravel especially for the stronger but not "impossible" to get rid of diseases, I usually toss the gravel and porous ornaments such as fabric plants.
 
#176 ·
There are, according to The Super Simple Guide to Common Fish Diseases by Lance Jepsen, 3 types of bacterial infections: peracute, that strikes without warning and kills without external signs; acute, the classical example with the fuzzies and septicemia; and chronic, a slow-moving case in which ulcers are formed in the body cavity due to the length in which a fish has this. This means any bacterial infection, not limited to myco.

And this is important. Furthermore, the book notes "There is a wide range of clinical signs linked to this disease, and many parasitic, bacterial, and fungal diseases can mimic mycobacteriosis." italics emphasis mine
 
#177 ·
hrrrmmm.. need to check that book out.

And I agree.. the signs of mycos are signs of many other diseases. And with fish and no lab, it is hard to know what you really have. The mycos info is just to keep in the back of your head. And the use of a disinfectant that will kill it will go a long way towards killing anything else unwanted in your fish room. thanks for the reference. going to go check it out.
 
#179 ·
wasn't trying to wake this thread up, but I can't help but wonder some of the other mods opinions on Mycobacteria, as in all the strains that affect fish, also which ones and what are the chances of a person contracting it?

I know i have read what i can find but there seems to be only real threat to those with immune deficiencies and open wounds to hands.

I was put off from keeping fish for a while after learning about myco, I am such a germophobe, even though I have kept almost every type of pet.

Since I am back in the hobby, this alarms me, because So many pet store workers have no qualms at all in placing there hands directly in tanks.
I know half of them don't even clean floors/ equipment regularly.
I find my self wondering how often outbreaks actually occur in humans?
in fish?
Are we making more of it than need be?
To be honest it freaks me out knowing it can happen.
Think about how many ignorant people are out there, but the old saying goes ignorance is bliss.
It is very difficult to be educated, and logical, as well as the average everyday joe. i know the members here range from all walks of life and education levels.
I truly wonder how any of us can put it out of our minds, I know it occurs naturally.
Should we really be using more harsher chemicals for disinfecting, isn't this why super bugs occur?
I am pondering using more than good old bleach, vinegar and Alcohol. I do want to keep myself and family safe, but I just don't know what to believe at times.
I read in one scientific article that 90% alcohol will kill about anything if left on for 10 min or left to dry.

I am sorry for rambling I just think it is a good/ important topic to discuss. I am late to the party anyone have further thoughts?
 
#182 ·
Used to be the mycos was something really not seen. So a bunch of us breeders got it.. we are kinda a closed circle. No big deal. But walking into 6 lfs and seeing fish with the lesions was a bit unnerving. And to find all 6 bought their fish from same place. Now not good. And management refuses to destroy the fish and take precautions is real bad news for something that spreads as easily as this does as we not have the possibility of it spreading to other tanks. Other fish not as vulnerable as a betta my end up being a carrier.

So this forum is huge and a way to get the info out that we may be seeing the beginning of a real mess. If you buy fish from lfs REALLY look over all fish and make sure the entire stock of them are healthy. Keep any new fish in quarantine 60 days and REALLY watch them for the crud that gets on their face. If fast moving fin rot shows up or the lesions take action quickly.

Get a cleaner capable of killing mycos and use it. And if you don't buy fish and every body is healthy then just enjoy your fish. Look at you fish room and start to think of things you do that may spread disease.. like velvet. And starring thinking bio-security and avoid transferring ANYTHING.

This is not the time to rescue half dead fish as the chances of it being a simple fin rot it slim.
 
#180 ·
I am currently reading a paper about a group of people studied that contracted M. marinum. The photos are nasty. From what I can tell most of these people had immunodeficiencies already and most were older. I'll have to get back to you when I'm done analyzing it.
Currently, the people with the worst symptoms were the last to start seeking medical attention and that is a big aspect of the disease.
Nasty marks on the area affected, some were operated on, haven't read the side effects. One guy got it in his eye (he was fishing and the hook got into his eye). So it seems you do need open wounds as well.

The truth is that there is so much more to this disease than this thread says, and it's easy to freak people out with all this misinformation here... Things such as saying "TB" (no none of your fish have tuberculosis and you will not get tuberculosis from your fish).

I really have to study for finals but hopefully will follow up properly soon...
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#185 ·
I am currently reading a paper about a group of people studied that contracted M. marinum. The photos are nasty. From what I can tell most of these people had immunodeficiencies already and most were older. I'll have to get back to you when I'm done analyzing it.
Currently, the people with the worst symptoms were the last to start seeking medical attention and that is a big aspect of the disease.
Nasty marks on the area affected, some were operated on, haven't read the side effects. One guy got it in his eye (he was fishing and the hook got into his eye). So it seems you do need open wounds as well.

The truth is that there is so much more to this disease than this thread says, and it's easy to freak people out with all this misinformation here... Things such as saying "TB" (no none of your fish have tuberculosis and you will not get tuberculosis from your fish).

I really have to study for finals but hopefully will follow up properly soon...
Posted via Mobile Device


We may have very well read the same/similar paper, i know one guy lost half a finger and the pics of M. marinum are grotesque.


Myates - I have dealt with Ich a few times, and whatever caused all my guppies to die off right before i took a long break from the hobby, its a long story but could have been a combination of bad water at the place we moved to, me trying to save them / to many meds, and so on and so forth. they died quickly it was traumatizing for me and i didn't keep fish for like 3 years after that. i was burnt out on it then.

BB - sorry for your losses, and i know as we all were beginners once and even experienced fish keepers can make the quarantine mistake. I think it has to do with the excitement and love of fish.
What is the cleaner you are using to kill mycos? do you think there are anymore natural safer cleaners.
I have other pets and young children, not to mention other people in the house. I like to be as green as possible.
Ps. I don't try and rescue sick fish, but I am working on acquiring fish for community/sorority tank .

Ayala - not sure where Early May gets there fish now, but long ago here where I live they used to be my absolute go to place for all my pets, they had all local breeders back in the day, but that was when I was a kid and they, shut down our only location with pets years ago.
 
#181 ·
Firefly - 20 yrs of fish keeping.. never got an illness/sick from it, and never had an outbreak other than 1 ich attack in 1 tank. It's good to be cautious and to be aware, take precautions.. but don't let it force you to stop, or not want to do it. More than likely you won't run into any issues such as this. People who just get one or few bettas for pets have a lower risk. It's more for people who keep dozens, who are always purchasing/ordering/shipping/breeding/etc that have a higher risk of getting this as many fish are shared and sold from all over the world.

So enjoy the hobby, take your normal sanitizing precautions and be aware - make sure to wash hands before/after, use those long rubber gloves they sell for fish keeping if you want, etc. But don't let it stop you in any way.. I remember hearing about "fish TB" for the first time back in the mid-late 90s and I worried.. but eventually just forgot about it because the longer I kept/bred fish, the more of a routine I got into taking care of making sure things/me are sanitized :)
 
#183 ·
I've seen some fish at walmart recently with pretty aggressive fin rot, but the last time I checked they only had one female left. She looked alright, but a little pale. So either they all died or most of them were purchased.

The last four fish I have purchased, one was from Earl May and the other three from a private breeder. So far, they are all healthy, besides the fact that the male from Earl May has gone blind and he's prone to constipation issues.

Does anyone by chance know where Earl May gets their fish from? Are they all the same, for the most part?
 
#184 ·
If people want to rescue sick fish, that's their perogative, BB. Chances are it's not myco but the effects of ammonia poisoning.

I'm throwing this out there as a warning to everyone:

Please be careful about accusing stores, suppliers, and wholesalers about selling fish with mycobacteriosis. You cannot prove that a fish has this disease without dissecting it, nor can you tell it has this disease simply by eyeballing it in a store. To accuse a business of selling diseased fish could get you into legal trouble and we at the forum do not wish this to happen. It is bad practice to make accusations that can't be substantiated. Everyone, please refrain from this for your own sakes.
 
#188 ·
This may be a dumb question but what about Aeromonas bacteria? That also will not respond to meds and there is no way to ill the bacteria, yet the symptoms are similar to Myco and columnaris...
When infected with Aeromonas hydrophila, fish develop ulcers, tail rot, fin rot, and hemorrhagic septicemia. Hemorrhagic septicaemia causes lesions that lead to scale shedding, hemorrhages in the gills and anal area, ulcers, exophthalmia, and abdominal swelling.
Aeromonas hydrophila is a heterotrophic, Gram-negative, rod-shaped bacterium mainly found in areas with a warm climate. This bacterium can be found in fresh or brackish water. It can survive in aerobic and anaerobic environments, and can digest materials such as gelatin and hemoglobin. Aeromonas hydrophila was isolated from humans and animals in the 1950s. It is the most well known of the six species of Aeromonas. It is resistant to most common antibiotics and cold temperatures.
 
#189 ·
This may be a dumb question but what about Aeromonas bacteria? That also will not respond to meds and there is no way to ill the bacteria, yet the symptoms are similar to Myco and columnaris...
Basement Betta's and Coppermoon's fish were infected with Mycobacteria. This was verified by lab analysis.

But, as Sakura and others have pointed out, a lot of other diseases have similar symptoms, and are NOT caused by Mycobacterial infection.

So, yes, a fish COULD be infected with something else, and display similar symptoms.

The only way to know for sure whether the fish has Mycobacterial infection is to send it to a lab for analysis. (As Coppermoon and BB did.)
 
#192 · (Edited)
I am almost 100% sure Dr. Seuss has this. I just spent the last few hours reading through the info on these threads, both the original "mystery disease" thread and this one.

The reasons I think this are:

  1. He has all the symptoms of the fast moving mystery disease. Overnight swim bladder infection and massive fin rot. He looks awful, he can't swim, he's gasping as though he can't breathe...
  2. He's recently always had little "scratches" on his face. They popped up after I introduced live plants and a piece of driftwood to his tank, but he was otherwise happy, healthy and normal. Because he likes to squeeze in close to the driftwood (silly fish), I just assumed they were indeed scratches on his face. Now, looking at pictures of mycobacteria "lesions", I realize those could have been mild lesions on his face.
  3. I actually have had some serious issues with pond snails just dying randomly. Couldn't figure out why! This would explain that entirely...
I am heartbroken. I hate to see my fishy suffer. He's such a little personality.
I also invested a LOT of money into this, for me, a college kid. I'm just sick at that loss as well...



So... I do have some info now. I know I need to put my poor little fishy down. I know I need to also euthanize the shrimp who inhabit the tank. They can't be allowed to spread the disease.



But I still have some questions for y'all:

  • Where can I send Dr. Seuss' body to be tested? How do I even ask for the right testing so I know if he has an aggressive strain of mycobacteria? Or should I even bother and just treat it like it IS mycobacteria because it's so likely?
  • My tank is a Fluval View- expensive and plastic. Can I save it?? Not the filter media, I know, but the tank... It's an $80 tank and if I can save it with reasonable security of NOT striking down another fish, I will. But from just a $$ standpoint, if there isn't really a way to disinfect it safely, it could end up costing me much much more money to keep it.
  • My plants... My precious, beautiful, healthy plants... I'm almost 100% sure that the mycobacteria came in on those. It was only after that I saw the "scratches" on Dr. Seuss' face. Can I disinfect them with reasonable security? I saw someone say she was wiping them down with TB disinfectant... The Barbicide Plus? I don't actually have that many plants, the View is a small tank. They just cost me so. much. money. And they are so healthy!
I think that's all for now... Excuse me while I go prepare to put my poor baby down... This is such a sad day. :cry:
 
#199 ·
[quote-Sakura8]
For disinfecting the tank, I would contact Coppermoon. She will have the info you need on what will and won't disinfect myco and what can be saved and what can't.

View Profile: Coppermoon[/quote]

Thank you Sakura8!



The lab I used ONLY does commercial fish. I used to supply my local with all their Betta until they started showing the fin rot, then of course I quit until I could figure out what it was. I don't have the link to the lab, as I am on my work computer, but it is in FL, and most all the links for this are from the lab. They do give links for hobbiest/pet owners that are fish doctors.

Disinfecting your tank. ((PM me WHERE you are in Texas)) I have some cleaner that you can use, but be VERY careful with it...I had it in a cheap spray bottle at full strength and it eventually ate through the plastic. OR you can bleach the tank (after wiping it down very well) for 24 hrs with a heavy bleach solution, then let it set in the Texas sun for about a week or so. Being dry for over a month will kill this...and the UV from the sun aids in it. IF you want some of the cleaner, I can get some to you if you live close enough that we can meet. Just make sure you clean VERY well to rid of residue...keep cleaning with as hot of water as you can stand until you don't smell it any more.
 
#193 ·
Hi Lady Courage. I'm so sorry to hear about your fish and your shrimp.

I've never euthanized shrimp before but I know that they are extremely sensitive to copper. Coppersafe might work. I'm not sure if shrimp can carry myco or not though.

For disinfecting the tank, I would contact Coppermoon. She will have the info you need on what will and won't disinfect myco and what can be saved and what can't.

View Profile: Coppermoon
 
#200 ·
Hi Lady Courage. I'm so sorry to hear about your fish and your shrimp.

I've never euthanized shrimp before but I know that they are extremely sensitive to copper. Coppersafe might work. I'm not sure if shrimp can carry myco or not though.

For disinfecting the tank, I would contact Coppermoon. She will have the info you need on what will and won't disinfect myco and what can be saved and what can't.

View Profile: Coppermoon
Thank you. :) Ah, that's a thought! I was wondering if the clove oil would work too? I don't know, haven't done any research yet. The copper is a reeeeally good idea, thank you!

If you are able to confirm its Mycos I think it is a good idea to euthanize the shrimp. I know that Basement Bettas disinfects absolutely everything that the water comes in contact with. Even if the shrimp aren't affected by Mycos, they would still infect a new tank, probably (in a similar way to how sharing equipment would).

However, disinfectant could be used on equipment but not on the shrimp, obviously.

Mycos is such a horrible bacteria. I'm deathly afraid of ever seeing it in my tanks, especially with all the money I've put into fish keeping. And I know that that's not even a fraction if what breeders have put into it.
Agreed, and thank you. You're right, now that I'm a little less panicked and thinking more clearly, I do want to make sure it is Mycos before I take any drastic steps. But first I need to find someone I can get to test Doc's body... (ugh, sounds so callus! My poor fishy!!)

The lab I used ONLY does commercial fish. I used to supply my local with all their Betta until they started showing the fin rot, then of course I quit until I could figure out what it was. I don't have the link to the lab, as I am on my work computer, but it is in FL, and most all the links for this are from the lab. They do give links for hobbiest/pet owners that are fish doctors.

Disinfecting your tank. ((PM me WHERE you are in Texas)) I have some cleaner that you can use, but be VERY careful with it...I had it in a cheap spray bottle at full strength and it eventually ate through the plastic. OR you can bleach the tank (after wiping it down very well) for 24 hrs with a heavy bleach solution, then let it set in the Texas sun for about a week or so. Being dry for over a month will kill this...and the UV from the sun aids in it. IF you want some of the cleaner, I can get some to you if you live close enough that we can meet. Just make sure you clean VERY well to rid of residue...keep cleaning with as hot of water as you can stand until you don't smell it any more.
Thank you very much Coppermoon!! OK, I'll dig through this thread and find those links.

Did you use the Barbicide Plus thing? We do have a Sally's here, so I think I could snag some. Thank you so much for the offer of giving me some, but I'm starting to think it might be a good idea to have a nice stash of that stuff on hand... I'll PM you my location, but it's possible that gas money would cost as much as buying a full bottle. :p Thank you so much!!


Ugh, this mycos is frightening me! I'm not a hysterical or germaphobic person (far from it), but I am scared by fatal diseases that do not respond to treatment. I know I personally won't get sick, nor my family, but I love my fishies. They are such wonderful little creatures.

So. I'm really hoping it ISN'T mycos. But just in case, I do want to clean everything crazy good, as if it's mycos, no matter what. I also want to send Doc's body in for testing, before I euthanize my shrimp (who are very healthy btw) and ditch my plants.


Also, some new developments have come about in Doc's condition... And I started a new thread about it. I realize it's going to be pretty controversial, but after a surprise improvement, I feel like I have to try this.

Because:

  • I can't know for sure it's mycos until/if he passes
  • I have no other fish
  • We don't know very much about this disease
  • As far as we know it always ends in death anyway...
What do we have to lose? Here's the thread, if you wanna keep up with what's up with Doc.

Despite my taking new steps with different treatment to see if Doc could possibly heal from mycos (I know every fish has always relapsed...), I'm still preparing for the worst. All the odds point towards my needing to put my fishy down and for him to have mycos. So... That's what I'm going to prepare for.


Thank you so much, everyone, for your help and support. I'm pretty stressed out over here, but I can't tell you how much it helps that y'all know what's going on, understand and are ready to help me. I just... I can't even express how grateful I am. So thank you. <3
 
#194 ·
If you are able to confirm its Mycos I think it is a good idea to euthanize the shrimp. I know that Basement Bettas disinfects absolutely everything that the water comes in contact with. Even if the shrimp aren't affected by Mycos, they would still infect a new tank, probably (in a similar way to how sharing equipment would).

However, disinfectant could be used on equipment but not on the shrimp, obviously.

Mycos is such a horrible bacteria. I'm deathly afraid of ever seeing it in my tanks, especially with all the money I've put into fish keeping. And I know that that's not even a fraction if what breeders have put into it.
 
#195 ·
This is a very interesting thread. My local Petsmart has a suspicious amount of betta deaths. All of them died the same way since December 2012. They all had curved spines, red gills, and pale bodies. Every time I went back I thought it was the same fish and they hadn't disposed of them in the three weeks I wasn't there...
In Bio we learned that dangerous bacteria is present everywhere, but won't affect you unless your immune system is compromised, such as when the HIV virus infects human and destroys helper T cells. Which eventually causes AIDS allowing rare, but deadly infections to set in. People who have not been infected with HIV are easily able to fight of these infections.
Perhaps it could be some sort of bacteria or virus that compromises the immune system allowing dangerous strains of myco to set in??
 
#196 ·
DoctorWhoLuver, it is the same with fish. All fish have some amount of bacteria, including mycobacteria, present in their systems at all times. Like HIV, mycobacteria doesn't become a problem unless the fish's immune system becomes stressed and compromised. These stresses typically (but not always) include poor conditions and dirty water.

I am curious though if you have ever seen on of the Petsmart bettas before it died. Some fish will curve up after death so we can't completely attribute curved spines to mycobacteria.
 
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