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Mycobacteria

This is a discussion on Mycobacteria within the Betta Fish Articles forums, part of the Articles category; --> Originally Posted by Olympia How can you tell they have pathogenic M. without lab testing? no absolute way. But look at the signs. lesions.. ...

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Old 01-16-2013, 10:59 PM   #81
 
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Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
How can you tell they have pathogenic M. without lab testing?
no absolute way. But look at the signs. lesions.. mostly about the head. bloating and dropsey. Wasteing away. Bad fin rot that moves very quick and into the flesh. If you look down the sides of your fish and see odd patches with a little fuzz look to it. ALL are symptoms.. treat for the obvious and if it fails consider the mycos. Or send to a lab. It took a lot to get the final diagnosis of the strain. And it was done for the number of fish I had. My local vet wanted $900 to work up 3 fish. I had 30 tested first, then another 24 I think. I will send more this summer to confirm it is gone. Not everyone is going to get that from a research facility. So keep this in the back of you mind as always a possibility..
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:02 PM   #82
 
Something just occurred to me. The person who first positively identified this as mycobacterium, at least on the forum and on the mystery disease thread, was Coppermoon.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:03 PM   #83
 
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Where did you send them? Did you pay anything for it?
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:10 PM   #84
 
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The link to my article with the references was deleted. No outside links I'm told. But I hope this one will be allowed. It took some searching to find products that will kill this stuff. My first attempt was not a good one. If it needs deleted.. sorry, just remove the link. But the EPA.gov site is where you need to go and dig if deleted.

These are products that will kill mycos. I'd recommend seeing your local vet or googling some of these online if you want to have a heavy duty disinfectant. Even if you just have an outbreak of velvet.. if you break down a tank, it is not a bad idea to hit it with something like this. And if you have the flu in your house you can use it on your stuff too. To kill mycos required the second highest kill level I think I remember reading. It will kill HIV virus.. that is how strong we are talking.

I let mine stand the 5 minutes wet it recommends then rinse with water. THen everything gets a good bleach dip to remove traces of the first spray.. then another good rinse and you are ready to go.

http://www.epa.gov/oppad001/list_b_tuberculocide.pdf
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:17 PM   #85
 
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Originally Posted by AyalaCookiejar View Post
Where did you send them? Did you pay anything for it?
When I sought out a researcher he located a local vet. He told me to see them and let him know what they told me. They could not even do a skin scrape and charged me $200. When I relayed that and the fact they wanted $900 he said to send fish to him. I got the initial result from their skin scraping. Then the did the finer testing and again said all fish had it all through the body,, in all organs. And it was recommended I talk to the leading researcher in the field to identify the strain as my symptoms were not lining up with what is out there on TB,. So he sent the referral to Dr Whipps and more fish were sent. There were some oddities like chin bumps that just were not typical presentations. It took a bit, but we finally, with dna, identified the strain. But I had already had the mycos diagnoses and was taking steps to get rid of it. When it returned we discovered the wrong chemical was used. Had I used the correct one I would not have had this last bunch with it again. I did not pay anyting but shipping for this.

It is not something they will do for anybody. With 500-1000 fish at any given time, I was almost like a research facility or commercial breeder. I am very thankful for their time and it has allowed me to tell others we have a serious problem. So it is now addressed and we are moving forward.. clean.

But the concern is with what I saw in local shops. One must use care when buying bettas as many come from the same facility. And I doubt they will destroy stock and decontaminate for bettas.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:21 PM   #86
 
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Anyone interested in using a good disinfectant that will kill TB --
Look up MSDS sheets of products to see what they are proven to kill.

Bleach, if used right will work! You need to let MOST disinfectants sit on the product for ATLEAST 10 minutes to kill everything. It has to be soaked enough to be wet the entire ten minutes its being used or else it becomes inneffective.
Bleach in a 1-10 solution is hospital grade and is proven to kill HIV Hepatitis, TB, etc as well.

Another good one is Barbicide, commonly available at most Sally's beauty supply or online and is a great disinfectant to use. It'll kill HIV, TB, Hepatitis, etc. We use it as cosmetologists (the blue stuff for our shears), as we are required to use Hospital grade disinfectants. 10 minutes, surface soaked enough to stay wet the entire 10 minute duration.

Read manufacturer directions and it will tell you how long to leave it on and if you leave it less than that, you arent killing what you think you are!


EDIT:: Sorry, I didnt look at the link before I wrote this.
Everything still holds true, but the list definitely shows more options.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:22 PM   #87
 
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Originally Posted by Sakura8 View Post
Something just occurred to me. The person who first positively identified this as mycobacterium, at least on the forum and on the mystery disease thread, was Coppermoon.
She got it from the same breeder I did. And she did not want to face the mycos when my diagnosis came back. I finally got her to send some fish and her diagnosis was not a surprise.. same symptoms. Got fish from same person.. at same time. And it wiped her out too. There are a few of us recovering from this. Everyone just though some crud resistant to drugs. We should have acted faster.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:23 PM   #88
 
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Originally Posted by aemaki09 View Post
Anyone interested in using a good disinfectant that will kill TB --
Look up MSDS sheets of products to see what they are proven to kill.

Bleach, if used right will work! You need to let MOST disinfectants sit on the product for ATLEAST 10 minutes to kill everything. It has to be soaked enough to be wet the entire ten minutes its being used or else it becomes inneffective.
Bleach in a 1-10 solution is hospital grade and is proven to kill HIV Hepatitis, TB, etc as well.

Another good one is Barbicide, commonly available at most Sally's beauty supply or online and is a great disinfectant to use. It'll kill HIV, TB, Hepatitis, etc. We use it as cosmetologists (the blue stuff for our shears), as we are required to use Hospital grade disinfectants. 10 minutes, surface soaked enough to stay wet the entire 10 minute duration.

Read manufacturer directions and it will tell you how long to leave it on and if you leave it less than that, you arent killing what you think you are!
Got to use a REAL high concentration for a long time. Remember I had it in my barracks running for TWO WEEKS and it still came back. Terminator triplex.. Isn't the exposure to bleach like an hour? And I'm going to check out sallys.. though I have a good product now.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:24 PM   #89
 
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Was that a breeder in Texas?
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:29 PM   #90
 
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Originally Posted by Basement Bettas View Post
Got to use a REAL high concentration for a long time. Remember I had it in my barracks running for TWO WEEKS and it still came back. Terminator triplex.. Isn't the exposure to bleach like an hour? And I'm going to check out sallys.. though I have a good product now.

Barbicide is my favorite by far.
What we use at my shop is just regular grade clorox bleach. 1 cup/pedicure tub and OSHA and the State Cos board both say its good to use. 10 minutes in a pedicure tub and then another 10 minutes of plain water running.
We use barbicide for everything else besides laundry, which is 1 cup per load.
I dont know how it didnt work in your barracks. But this what we are required to do, and we are required to use the same disinfection procedures as a surgical suite in a hospital.
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