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Mycobacteria

This is a discussion on Mycobacteria within the Betta Fish Articles forums, part of the Articles category; --> Originally Posted by twolovers101 A thought just occurred to me What you're saying is that 70% of all farm fish (like for major petstores) ...

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Old 01-16-2013, 11:25 PM   #61
 
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Originally Posted by twolovers101 View Post
A thought just occurred to me

What you're saying is that 70% of all farm fish (like for major petstores) carry some strain of mycos.

Also, per Olympia, fish in the wild also carry some sort of strain of mycos and it can even be found in the soil.

What you just said here mentioned a PATHOGENIC strain. So say, out of those 70% of fish that carry mycos, how many documented major wipe-outs like the one that happened to you have happened?

And if it's as small a number as it seems to be (seeing as most people don't ever have an issue with this disease) is it possible that only the people who handle large numbers of fish see the pathogenic strain? and if so, and if only 1 fish caused this and the ONE fish happened to have this particular pathogenic strain, then is it possible that a MUCH LOWER percent of fish actually have the disease that is causing the panic that we are seeing?
It is this pathogenic strain that is starting to show up in large numbers. You have to do a lot of searching as it is not the common strains. And it is deadly. I saw it locally in 6 pet shops.. in their bettas. And all get from one supplier. I think there is a serious exposure issue there. So recommend using real care, at this point in time, when buying from the major chains. I'm sure my fish had other mycos present. But the one causing the deaths and all the other crazy and varied sypmtoms was this triplex.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:26 PM   #62
 
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I agree with you 100% But exposure to this strain will take a fish down., Happy and healthy will not make the fish able to resist this. There is no immunity once this enters the fish. It will weaken the fish and eventually kill it. My fish were in perfect health until exposed to this. And I dare say others I know who have dealt with this also have perfectly healthy systems until exposed. Sure.. take care of your tanks. But make sure you are not exposed too. I had UV and that just slowed the progression. I put perfectly happy and healthy fish back in my barracks and fish once again showed symptoms. It had not been eradicated properly from the system itself. did not even need a sick fish this time. I'm sure exposing you to something like the plague will quickly make even you not feel too good. Depends on what you are exposed to.

Well bringing up the plague is a nice direction to turn. Really gets on the rarity of certain diseases. There have been maybe 5 documented cases a year of infections caused by Yersinia pestis, so yeah, anyone in contact with the plague is going to feel kind of cruddy. Nobody has immunity to it. But when you are talking about Myco, a bacteria that every fish has, even the harsher strains are granted some immunity from it, as the fish is used to having it.

Oh and just in case you didn't know

**Yersinia Pestis = Bubonic Plague/Black Death
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:26 PM   #63
 
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Okay.. think this is my last post on this topic for now...
Mycobacterium has been around for years on end. When I joined this hobby, one of the first things on disease I read was "mycobacterium is found in almost every aquarium fish in some number." We've known this for a long time (okay, shush, I haven't been fish keeping that long :p).

I would honestly, think that if we were having some sort of bacterial epidemic here, that some magazine like Amazonas or Practical Fish Keeping would have commented on it. They haven't, no one seems too worried about this to me.
This has been around for so many years (gosh, some of those paper's sources are from the 90's- we do realize that's over a decade right?) and the world hasn't ended, fish still live in tanks, they will keep living in tanks. Die outs here and there is part of the hobby and happens when you aren't careful with your fish.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:28 PM   #64
 
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Originally Posted by Basement Bettas View Post
It is this pathogenic strain that is starting to show up in large numbers. You have to do a lot of searching as it is not the common strains. And it is deadly. I saw it locally in 6 pet shops.. in their bettas. And all get from one supplier. I think there is a serious exposure issue there. So recommend using real care, at this point in time, when buying from the major chains. I'm sure my fish had other mycos present. But the one causing the deaths and all the other crazy and varied sypmtoms was this triplex.
How can you tell they have pathogenic M. without lab testing?
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:30 PM   #65
 
That is true. Every expert who has written books/magazine articles on fish diseases agree that the only way to positively know a fish has myco is to do testing, whether it's a tissue sample or an autopsy. And saying you recognize the signs isn't cutting it because every expert also agrees that there are many diseases that mimic each other, hence the need for lab testing.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:30 PM   #66
 
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You are correct, I shouldn't have used the term "only" maybe "mostly" or "the majority of people who see this type of disease are those who handle large numbers of fish" would have been more appropriate xD

Also, I have seen it happen to a person with only one fish before, so it is possible, what I'm saying is maybe the percentages of this particular deadly pathogenic strain are actually lower than what people think
I hope so. And it does make sense... But I think we also often don't hear about the cases of people who only owned one Betta, because anyone can go out and buy one, stick it in a tiny unheated tank and not think anything about it when the fish dies... Maybe it could be a reason people seen to have "bad luck" with bettas (besides that they are uneducated on proper care). Many people think that disinfecting with hot water actually works, and can't understand why every new fish they get dies...

I just find it hard to believe than anyone has that kind of info about the Betta population as a whole because anyone can go out and buy one. I could have got one on my own when I was 5 if I had $10.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:32 PM   #67
 
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Basement Bettas... Out of curiousity, did you QT the fish that introduced this to your tanks? Did you buy him/her from a store or a breeder? If you did QT, how long? What were the first symptoms? Most alarming?
I'm just curious because I want to know how long to QT any new fish and what exactly to look for and such...
Got him from a US breeder. QT for like 60 days. Decided was tired of cleaning the beanie and put him in my barracks. Then he got a bit off.. eventually bloated and died. It happens. so removed him and put another fish in that cell. About 2 more fish deaths IN THAT CELL made me think something not right. And now the entire row showing symptoms. Was not long after the entire system showed signs. Because I just went from one barrack to the next or next tank without disinfection.. I quickly exposed my entire fish room. In 2 months time I had every fish showing symptoms. I searched out a phd, asked some questions and he told me to send fish. He had wanted to look at the columnaris that was so resistant. It took 5 months from getting the fish to diagnosis. And I was lucky enough I was allowed to send fish to be tested. And they were very patient with answering all my questions and referring me to other scientific papers to read. Many people have had this in their fish room over a year and just never could shake it. Now that we know what it is it is being dealt with. And we are getting rid of it.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:36 PM   #68
 
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So if I take good care of my fish (which I obviously do) then I shouldn't be worrying about this Myco bacterium?
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:37 PM   #69
 
Exactly, Finn. :)
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:38 PM   #70
 
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Originally Posted by Basement Bettas View Post
Got him from a US breeder. QT for like 60 days. Decided was tired of cleaning the beanie and put him in my barracks. Then he got a bit off.. eventually bloated and died. It happens. so removed him and put another fish in that cell. About 2 more fish deaths IN THAT CELL made me think something not right. And now the entire row showing symptoms. Was not long after the entire system showed signs. Because I just went from one barrack to the next or next tank without disinfection.. I quickly exposed my entire fish room. In 2 months time I had every fish showing symptoms. I searched out a phd, asked some questions and he told me to send fish. He had wanted to look at the columnaris that was so resistant. It took 5 months from getting the fish to diagnosis. And I was lucky enough I was allowed to send fish to be tested. And they were very patient with answering all my questions and referring me to other scientific papers to read. Many people have had this in their fish room over a year and just never could shake it. Now that we know what it is it is being dealt with. And we are getting rid of it.
60 days QT? :/ oh, my. Maybe I just shouldn't ever get new fish, haha.
How do you go about getting rid of this, you think? It seems like an awful lot to take on. 60 days sounds like a long time... Even that didn't protect your stock.
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