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Mycobacteria

This is a discussion on Mycobacteria within the Betta Fish Articles forums, part of the Articles category; --> Firefly - 20 yrs of fish keeping.. never got an illness/sick from it, and never had an outbreak other than 1 ich attack in ...

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Old 01-19-2013, 03:29 PM   #181
 
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Firefly - 20 yrs of fish keeping.. never got an illness/sick from it, and never had an outbreak other than 1 ich attack in 1 tank. It's good to be cautious and to be aware, take precautions.. but don't let it force you to stop, or not want to do it. More than likely you won't run into any issues such as this. People who just get one or few bettas for pets have a lower risk. It's more for people who keep dozens, who are always purchasing/ordering/shipping/breeding/etc that have a higher risk of getting this as many fish are shared and sold from all over the world.

So enjoy the hobby, take your normal sanitizing precautions and be aware - make sure to wash hands before/after, use those long rubber gloves they sell for fish keeping if you want, etc. But don't let it stop you in any way.. I remember hearing about "fish TB" for the first time back in the mid-late 90s and I worried.. but eventually just forgot about it because the longer I kept/bred fish, the more of a routine I got into taking care of making sure things/me are sanitized :)
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:47 PM   #182
 
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Originally Posted by Firefly85 View Post
wasn't trying to wake this thread up, but I can't help but wonder some of the other mods opinions on Mycobacteria, as in all the strains that affect fish, also which ones and what are the chances of a person contracting it?

I know i have read what i can find but there seems to be only real threat to those with immune deficiencies and open wounds to hands.

I was put off from keeping fish for a while after learning about myco, I am such a germophobe, even though I have kept almost every type of pet.

Since I am back in the hobby, this alarms me, because So many pet store workers have no qualms at all in placing there hands directly in tanks.
I know half of them don't even clean floors/ equipment regularly.
I find my self wondering how often outbreaks actually occur in humans?
in fish?
Are we making more of it than need be?
To be honest it freaks me out knowing it can happen.
Think about how many ignorant people are out there, but the old saying goes ignorance is bliss.
It is very difficult to be educated, and logical, as well as the average everyday joe. i know the members here range from all walks of life and education levels.
I truly wonder how any of us can put it out of our minds, I know it occurs naturally.
Should we really be using more harsher chemicals for disinfecting, isn't this why super bugs occur?
I am pondering using more than good old bleach, vinegar and Alcohol. I do want to keep myself and family safe, but I just don't know what to believe at times.
I read in one scientific article that 90% alcohol will kill about anything if left on for 10 min or left to dry.

I am sorry for rambling I just think it is a good/ important topic to discuss. I am late to the party anyone have further thoughts?
Used to be the mycos was something really not seen. So a bunch of us breeders got it.. we are kinda a closed circle. No big deal. But walking into 6 lfs and seeing fish with the lesions was a bit unnerving. And to find all 6 bought their fish from same place. Now not good. And management refuses to destroy the fish and take precautions is real bad news for something that spreads as easily as this does as we not have the possibility of it spreading to other tanks. Other fish not as vulnerable as a betta my end up being a carrier.

So this forum is huge and a way to get the info out that we may be seeing the beginning of a real mess. If you buy fish from lfs REALLY look over all fish and make sure the entire stock of them are healthy. Keep any new fish in quarantine 60 days and REALLY watch them for the crud that gets on their face. If fast moving fin rot shows up or the lesions take action quickly.

Get a cleaner capable of killing mycos and use it. And if you don't buy fish and every body is healthy then just enjoy your fish. Look at you fish room and start to think of things you do that may spread disease.. like velvet. And starring thinking bio-security and avoid transferring ANYTHING.

This is not the time to rescue half dead fish as the chances of it being a simple fin rot it slim.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:17 PM   #183
 
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I've seen some fish at walmart recently with pretty aggressive fin rot, but the last time I checked they only had one female left. She looked alright, but a little pale. So either they all died or most of them were purchased.

The last four fish I have purchased, one was from Earl May and the other three from a private breeder. So far, they are all healthy, besides the fact that the male from Earl May has gone blind and he's prone to constipation issues.

Does anyone by chance know where Earl May gets their fish from? Are they all the same, for the most part?
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:05 PM   #184
 
If people want to rescue sick fish, that's their perogative, BB. Chances are it's not myco but the effects of ammonia poisoning.

I'm throwing this out there as a warning to everyone:

Please be careful about accusing stores, suppliers, and wholesalers about selling fish with mycobacteriosis. You cannot prove that a fish has this disease without dissecting it, nor can you tell it has this disease simply by eyeballing it in a store. To accuse a business of selling diseased fish could get you into legal trouble and we at the forum do not wish this to happen. It is bad practice to make accusations that can't be substantiated. Everyone, please refrain from this for your own sakes.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:23 PM   #185
 
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Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
I am currently reading a paper about a group of people studied that contracted M. marinum. The photos are nasty. From what I can tell most of these people had immunodeficiencies already and most were older. I'll have to get back to you when I'm done analyzing it.
Currently, the people with the worst symptoms were the last to start seeking medical attention and that is a big aspect of the disease.
Nasty marks on the area affected, some were operated on, haven't read the side effects. One guy got it in his eye (he was fishing and the hook got into his eye). So it seems you do need open wounds as well.

The truth is that there is so much more to this disease than this thread says, and it's easy to freak people out with all this misinformation here... Things such as saying "TB" (no none of your fish have tuberculosis and you will not get tuberculosis from your fish).

I really have to study for finals but hopefully will follow up properly soon...
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We may have very well read the same/similar paper, i know one guy lost half a finger and the pics of M. marinum are grotesque.


Myates - I have dealt with Ich a few times, and whatever caused all my guppies to die off right before i took a long break from the hobby, its a long story but could have been a combination of bad water at the place we moved to, me trying to save them / to many meds, and so on and so forth. they died quickly it was traumatizing for me and i didn't keep fish for like 3 years after that. i was burnt out on it then.

BB - sorry for your losses, and i know as we all were beginners once and even experienced fish keepers can make the quarantine mistake. I think it has to do with the excitement and love of fish.
What is the cleaner you are using to kill mycos? do you think there are anymore natural safer cleaners.
I have other pets and young children, not to mention other people in the house. I like to be as green as possible.
Ps. I don't try and rescue sick fish, but I am working on acquiring fish for community/sorority tank .

Ayala - not sure where Early May gets there fish now, but long ago here where I live they used to be my absolute go to place for all my pets, they had all local breeders back in the day, but that was when I was a kid and they, shut down our only location with pets years ago.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:34 AM   #186
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basement Bettas View Post
A friend of Coppermoon that was told what I had and that her fish also were positive to mycos. The triplex comments were added after my results were given.

I agree with him on many of his articles and have learned a lot from them.. but do not feel giving the hope of treatment is fair because it is not accurate. It is a death sentence for the fish. I looked for hope.. but there really was none. I was in denial for over a week.. then finally had to accept what needed done. People are treated for this at least 9 month to a year. No way a fish will be cured in a few months. If the scientist can not save a commercial breeder or research fish.. then the reality is they could not save mine.
Sorry for interrupt again.
I am sorry for you lost fishes.
I would like to know MTB is active whole a year ?
Do you know that ?
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:52 AM   #187
 
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Originally Posted by norico View Post
Sorry for interrupt again.
I am sorry for you lost fishes.
I would like to know MTB is active whole a year ?
Do you know that ?
1) "Fish TB" is not the same as Mycobacterium tuberculosis (MTB).

MTB is the tuberculosis that occurs in people (and mammals). However, fish are not affected by this particular type of Mycobacteria.*

2) OTHER type of Mycobacteria DO affect fish, such as Mycobacterium marinum (MM), Mycobacterium fortuitum, Mycobacterium triplex (MT), etc.

3) All strains of Mycobacteria are protected by a waxy coating. It can survive on dry surfaces for months.** I read somewhere that it can live in distilled water for a year, but I can't find that source right now.

Sources:
* https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/even...factsheet/231/
** http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2334/6/130
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:25 AM   #188
 
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This may be a dumb question but what about Aeromonas bacteria? That also will not respond to meds and there is no way to ill the bacteria, yet the symptoms are similar to Myco and columnaris...
Quote:
When infected with Aeromonas hydrophila, fish develop ulcers, tail rot, fin rot, and hemorrhagic septicemia. Hemorrhagic septicaemia causes lesions that lead to scale shedding, hemorrhages in the gills and anal area, ulcers, exophthalmia, and abdominal swelling.
Aeromonas hydrophila is a heterotrophic, Gram-negative, rod-shaped bacterium mainly found in areas with a warm climate. This bacterium can be found in fresh or brackish water. It can survive in aerobic and anaerobic environments, and can digest materials such as gelatin and hemoglobin. Aeromonas hydrophila was isolated from humans and animals in the 1950s. It is the most well known of the six species of Aeromonas. It is resistant to most common antibiotics and cold temperatures.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:33 AM   #189
 
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Originally Posted by Tikibirds View Post
This may be a dumb question but what about Aeromonas bacteria? That also will not respond to meds and there is no way to ill the bacteria, yet the symptoms are similar to Myco and columnaris...
Basement Betta's and Coppermoon's fish were infected with Mycobacteria. This was verified by lab analysis.

But, as Sakura and others have pointed out, a lot of other diseases have similar symptoms, and are NOT caused by Mycobacterial infection.

So, yes, a fish COULD be infected with something else, and display similar symptoms.

The only way to know for sure whether the fish has Mycobacterial infection is to send it to a lab for analysis. (As Coppermoon and BB did.)
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:50 PM   #190
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBlueFishlets View Post
1) "Fish TB" is not the same as Mycobacterium tuberculosis (MTB).

MTB is the tuberculosis that occurs in people (and mammals). However, fish are not affected by this particular type of Mycobacteria.*

2) OTHER type of Mycobacteria DO affect fish, such as Mycobacterium marinum (MM), Mycobacterium fortuitum, Mycobacterium triplex (MT), etc.

3) All strains of Mycobacteria are protected by a waxy coating. It can survive on dry surfaces for months.** I read somewhere that it can live in distilled water for a year, but I can't find that source right now.

Sources:
* https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/even...factsheet/231/
** http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2334/6/130
Thank you so much for teach me.
I just want to know if it's relationship the season or not. I'll read those article.

Thank you very much !
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