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total moron cycle question

4K views 39 replies 4 participants last post by  bearwithfish 
#1 ·
ok so i have read and re-read a bunch of the other posts but i have to ask i have a very high NH3 reading in a tank that is just finally all set up should i do a partial water change or let things be for a bit longer? here is all my tank info
29 gallon salt water
salinity 1.025 (same as my LFS for ease of acclimation later on)
45 pounds dry rock
2.5 pounds live rock
45 pounds of live sand (pre-cured and ready to go)
KH= 9
PH =7.7
NO2 = 0.3
NH3= 3.0

i added the last of the sand yesterday evening. found some cool life in the tank
snail, feather duster, starfish, and variouse worms....
whats the next step P/W/C or sit tight???????:blueshake::blueshake:
 
#2 ·
Sit tight. You will be fine in a few days, amybe a week's time. Does the water smell at all? The ammonia reading you are seeing is all part of the natural die-off that occurs when you start a new tank. Keep us updated on the levels of Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate over the next few days. Post in the afternoon after the lights come on. And hopefully that pH comes up. What is your calcium level?
 
#3 ·
i dont have a calcium test yet.... my lights go on at 7am befor we leave for the day....yes the water smells i thought it was from the shrimp i put in to get things moving so took it out..... what could i use to raise ph in a stable manner.. i dont want to chemicaly dose as the effects are short lived you know... funny thing just to point it out all my fresh water tanks show a higher PH (generally 8 or so)
 
#5 ·
i have a great local dealer here and i got it from him.. he has been doing salt for a long time and has a really good reputaion in the area... personally i love working with him because he understands the budget issues and is always willing to help me figure out ways to DIY or get things a bit cheaper even at the expence of a sale for himself....
 
#7 ·
he had it in a large stock tank for a few weeks and there was alot of life in and around it in there.... my biggest concern at this moment is that it looks like i have a thin layer of "dust" all over everything in the tank.. i thin kthis is part of the die off butt it looks like junk!!! i kicked it up last night and tossed some spong in my HOB to catch it and when i took the spong out this morning i had quite a bit but there is again a layer of this stuff on my rock, sand, every where!!! is this normal? i only have cell pix at this moment and i am not sure how to get them on line but if you want PM me your cell and i will send it to you.....
 
#9 ·
good deal i just take it out each day and rinse it well then add a new dry one and go back and forth each day .. while one dries the other is being used i may change to a filer pad set for a bit though for best flow and capture ability...
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
here is a some what close up of one side of the tank.. you get the idea.... this is the dust like stuff all over the place.. i just spoke with my guy here and we came up with a plan...
1st let it sit for a few days
then if no real change then i am going to hook up a bunch of HOB's with filter pads or floss and shat not then take a net and wave it all up into the water colomn and let the filters pull it out
after the water clears remove all the filters and clean the floss or pads to use at a later time if needed (NEVER let them sit in the tank for more than 24 hours!!)

Underwater Rock Organism Marine biology Fish
 
#14 ·
ok so get this i will take pix tomorrow and send them but i got home today and the sand looks all cleared up!!! it looks like sand again and no dust on it.. it is still on my rocks but i think this is a good thing right??
also found some rust looking spots on the LR not the DR yet but its on the move!!!!!!!! i so excited
 
#15 ·
I think you are doing just fine, relax. At this point, take you hand and very gently wave it back and forth just over top the rocks, to gently create current to remove the dusting of sand from the surface. You want to get the sand off the rocks. Another option is to add 2 or 3 blue or red leg hermit crabs to the tank. They will pick over the rock surface and brush off the settled sand.

I want to point out that your rock structure is rather thin. You have enough rock to handle bioload issues, but the lack of a true reef will make it very difficult to accurately help you with fish compatability, especially in a small tank. I would personally double the size of that reef structure. A 25 pound order of Key Largo rock from www.MarcoRocks.com would do you some good.

Another though I had when looking at the tank is your long term plans and filtration. What is your desire from this tank in terms of livestock? Have you selected a Protein Skimmer yet? If not, we can give you some inexpensive options at a great discount from online retailers.

Finally, you need to buy a few more things soon if you are going to be successful. Let me explain. Over the next couple of weeks you are going to see a diatom bloom. This will appear almost overnight and look like rust colored algae that covers your rock and sand. Almost as quickly, about a week later, it will disappear. It is important at this stage in a young tank that you have a handle on the alkalinity and calcium levels. To do this you need a buffer, calcium supplement, and test kits for alkalinity and calcium. Most of us here us the API brand test kits, because they are inexpensive and easy to use.
http://www.marineandreef.com/Aquarium_Pharmaceuticals_Test_Kits_s/579.htm
 
#17 ·
Yeah, like I said, I'm not worried about the bioload. It is simply the reef structure. I think when you get some more rock above the sand bed and arrange it with more nooks & crannies you will be fine. Think small fish, hiding places, and night time comfort.
 
#18 ·
Freshwater aquarium Aquarium decor Aquarium Aquarium lighting Organism


ok so here is the new reef-scape... pasfer i am not trying to be a bone head i just forget who i spoke to about what i appologize if i came on like a jerk..... so here is the new look and i like it a LOT more... now for the chemestry part of it i am going to retest everything again tomorrow and see where i am at.. i still need a calcium test.. but i was looking in there tonight and noted a lot of shells and that the dry rock is very calcium based wont that bring up the count? and as for buffer i looked at some today and i will check my regular dealer next week to see what is best.. is there another way i can bring up my PH with out buffer? like a rock or other item i could safely add to the tank? thank you again for all your help every one i am truely greatful :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:
 
#20 ·
the dry rock is very calcium based wont that bring up the count? and as for buffer i looked at some today and i will check my regular dealer next week to see what is best.. is there another way i can bring up my PH with out buffer? like a rock or other item i could safely add to the tank?
A very short over simplified version of a long discussion: Organic waste present in your aquarium exists as acids, which remove carbonates. Carbonates make up alkalinity. Calcium carbonate is the dominant carbonate buffer in marine water. Testing for both alkalinity and calcium is necessary to maintain the proper balance of calcium to all the other buffering ions. Without this balance, you don't really have "saltwater", you just have water with a bunch of salts. For example, you could add table salt to freshwater and increase the salinity to 1.024, but that wouldn't be "saltwater" for our purposes.

No, there is not anything you can add to the tank to release calcium at the pH levels we have in marine tanks. You would have to lower the pH to the 7.4 range. Generally speaking. (Which is why crushed coral is a decent buffer in freshwater tanks.)

Also, it is important to recognize that you are not adding a "pH buffer". You don't want products such as pH Up etc. You are adding BUFFERS. For example, I use Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH for my buffer. I use Kent Marine Calcium Chloride for my calcium supplement.

oh hhhhh yeah about stock... i am intending to do inverts and corals only for now.. i dont know if i want fish in it at all. ... but if i do i have one in mind that i may get in november..... i dont recall the name off hand but they are sooo cool its blue and has like crazy patterns in all sorts of colors all over it.... a blue manderin i think
Sorry to tell you this, but you can't keep a Mandarine in a 29 gallon tank. They require populations of copepods and amphipods to survive which can not be sustained in such a small tank. A tank upwards of 125 gallons or larger is necessary for this small fish. As an alternative, check out some of the Fairy Wrasses, which will provide you with some amazing color patterns (at a cost).
 
#19 ·
oh hhhhh yeah about stock... i am intending to do inverts and corals only for now.. i dont know if i want fish in it at all. ... but if i do i have one in mind that i may get in november..... i dont recall the name off hand but they are sooo cool its blue and has like crazy patterns in all sorts of colors all over it.... a blue manderin i think
 
#21 ·
ok sooo i have read all of this earlier and re-read the entirety of all my threads... here is what occured this week end and from here on i will take things fresh and back to slow...
as you can see above i have re-scaped the rocks for better flow and appearance.... i also decided that since i have messed with the tank so much that i may have screwed the maturity process.. so i picked up a calcium test (results in a moment) and some buffer from my LFS who does nothing but salt water ( so i would not get the wrong stuff fromthe box guys)... also found this beautiful piece of LR that was very purple and green (its a premium type i dont recall the name) and purchased that also...
so after adding this LR and (oh yeahhh) my little crab buddy i swished up the dust and ran a few HOB's for two hours t get all the mess up... took out floss once everything was clear and ran my tests again
CA= 480ppm (great!!!)
KH= 10
No2= 1.6
Nh3= 1.5
PH= 8.6
so i am certainly still in the cycle.. after a few hours i went back to look at the tank to see what may have come off the LR .... and the tank has already gone to diatom bloom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i mean everything is rust colored!!! in like two hours.... so if i have read all that i have correctly 1) thats really reallly fast 2) its really good 3) leave it alone and wait to see what happens testing every day or two from here out.. am i correct?????
 
#22 ·
Your readings look fine for where you should be right now in the maturity of the tank. What test kits are you using? Just wondering because the results seem very "accurate." And what is your NitrAte reading?

When you disturbed the sand, you created a little "die-off" from different levels of bacteria receiving either too much or too little oxygen. That is why the "cycle" seemed to start again. But since it was such a small occurence, the diatom bloom happened again almost immediately.

Leave it alone and just keep posting test results. Calcium and Alk look good!
 
#23 ·
ok i have an API test for calcium. the rest are from another kit i have had for quite awhile and i dont recall the name (i am at work atm).... i will post that later on.. i got the buffer from my LFS (i know we can not advertise so i wont, however this guy is great!!!).. as for accuracy i test everything 2x before i am satisfied that the test worked.... i dont think this test kit has a nitrate test in it but i will buy one in time (probably next week end) in the meantime i intend to use a strip test for it i have at the house ( i know horribly in accurate but its what i have available at the moment)....
i was hoping that the small restart was just what you said and i thank you for confirming it for me.... now i am in the LEAVE IT ALONE stage before i totally botch something up..... LOL
 
#24 ·
oh and another question came up.. (NOTE: i have NOT done this) would the addition of Zeolite assist in the removal of NitrIte and or NitrAte? i tossed in a bag of carbon to polish the water but i was curriouse about this product. i have used it in my submersibles for the fresh water tank but have not heard of it used in a reef.. thoughts???
 
#25 ·
From your numbers, it looks like your ammonia levels are on the decrease, so I'd leave zeolite out of the equation. Zeolite is best applied to uncontrollable ammonia problems. It's better to just let the bacteria take care of it, in my opinion.
 
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