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Thinking of starting SW

18K views 124 replies 8 participants last post by  Johnwall 
#1 ·
Hello All,

I was gifted a double decker stand with a 25gallon and 20 High tank. I wanted to know if this would be an OK to start a SW tank for a newbie. I have freshwater but im trying to decide what I want to do with these tanks. I cannot fit anything bigger for at least two years, so this is all I have to work with.

I know i would need:
Filter, Heater, hood, etc normal stuff
Protein skimmer
ro/di unit
live Sand/ live rock
API master SW test kit and a refractometer.

FOWLR would be my start, adding easy coral if possible at some point. Also love shrimp/ crabs. Is this possible, and what would be my possible stock list. If i like it and decide to go with SW then ill start picking your brain on equipment.

Thanks.
 
#2 ·
Awesome gift! I'm just starting with SW as well. If I was fortunate enough to have two tanks right next to each other I would definitely make them polar opposites. As in have one with Carribean sea life and the other with Pacific life, or one with carnivorous fish and the other with peaceful, one with corals, one with anemonies... etc etc. That would be really neat imo :)
 
#3 ·
#1-Dry Rock, there are a few hitchhikers on Live Rock that people want to stay away from, so they opt for using Dry Rock, or Dead Rock. Macro Rock is a good place to start looking for that. Either way you go you will need a minimum of 1lb per gallon.
#2-Replacement filter media like filter floss and activated carbon (if you get a filter) Which is really not necessary.
#3-Multiple Power heads (2 or 3) 10x your water volume for just a Fish Only With Live Rock, and at least 20x your water volume for a Reef Tank. So lets say your going reef, and you have a 100g tank, you would need flow in that tank at minimum of 2000gph, or 2 1000gph power heads.
#4-Protein Skimmer, rated at 2 times your water volume. Unless your tank is under 30g, in which case you can do 10% water changes a week to rid the system of detrius. But, you'll have to watch the water parameters close, if things go haywire, you'll have to do more water changes.
#5-Saltwater Test Kits. Reef Test Kit. Test for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, PH, Phosphates, Calcium, ALK and Magnesium.
#6-Saltwater fish food. Mysis Shrimp, Squid, Cyclopease, Algae Sheets, Romaine . Flake food is not really a good food to feed your marine fish.
#7-Aquarium vacuum. This one is iffy. Most don't use one, if you have enough flow in the tank you won’t need one
#8-Rubber kitchen gloves
#9-Fish net
#10-Two, clean, never used before, 5-gallon buckets
#11-Aquarium thermometer, digital being the best
.#12-Brush with plastic bristles (old tooth brush) - needed for cleaning the live rock if you don't get Fully Cured Live Rock
.#13-Power Strip, possibly GFCI outlets by the tank.
#14-Optional but definitely recommend getting a Reverse Osmosis or RO/Deionization filter for the make-up water, and a barrel for storing the water.
#15-Possibly a Quarantine Tank for your new fish. They sit in here for a few weeks to kill off parasites and bacteria, to keep it from getting in your main tank
#16-Heater rated for your size tank.
#17-Saltwater Mix. Marine Salt. Instant Ocean is the cheap Salt that beginners and Advanced use alike.
#18-Saltwater Hydrometer or even better a Refractometer, which is more accurate. There is also a Digital Meter that is way advanced if you have the cash.
#19-Aquarium filter (not absolutely necessary if running with adequate amounts of live rock, but nice to have if you need to use a mechanical filter or activated carbon, or GFO and such)
#20-Aquarium substrate such as live sand or crushed coral. Some go bare Bottom, others choose the 2-3" bottom, others, more advanced will try the Deep Sand Bed, which is over 6" deep.

Nano Fish
Blennies: Blenny Fish Species Including Bicolor, Striped and other Blennies
Clownfish for Sale: Clownfish Species for the Home Aquarium
Dartfish
Gobies for Sale: Goby Fish Species Including Shrimp Gobies
Jawfish
Chromis for Sale: Blue and Green Chromis and other Reef Species

Beginner Invertebrates: Invertebrates Suitable for Beginners in Saltwater Aquariums
Saltwater Crabs: Hermit Crab Species for Saltwater Tanks
Aquarium Snails: Sea Snail Species and Aquatic Saltwater Snails
Sea Urchins: Live Red, Black and Pencil Sea Urchin Species
Aquarium Shrimp: Cleaner Shrimp Pistol and Coral Banded Shrimp
 
#9 ·
OK so I’m going to get some ideas:

1: I’m assuming, since the total is going to be about 45 gallons including sump, I would need enough rock for 45 gallons. So minimum 50 pounds. Live rock is about $4/pound at my LFS. Any good online sites for dry rock?
2. I’ll get to this later.
3. I would like some easy corals at some point. So I will say 20x. By water volume, I’m still assuming it’s the total of 45 gallons. Not sure what a good brand is. But let’s say I use two of these (http://www.thatpetplace.com/koralia-evolution-water-pump-550-gph-4w?sc=10&category=2964).
4. Understood I need a skimmer rated for 100gallons. Any good brands. They look expensive J but I know that going in.
7. I have a python. I use it for FW so I’m assuming I won’t want to move it between FW and SW. So if I don’t need it, then that’s better.
11. Good brands? Or are they all pretty accurate?
14. This will have to come down the line. Not sure where in my apartment I can hook this up. Again, any good brands?
16. What watt is suggested given I’ll have a sump.
18. Will defiantly get a refract meter, but not sure if it will be digital.
20. Live sand for me, 2-3” sounds nice.


On stocking, this is what I like. Not sure what I can do specificity.
Clown fish.
Catalina Goby
Firefish
Striped Blenny
Tail Spot Blenny
Horseface Blenny
Clown Goby
Highfin Red Banded Goby
Jawfish
Black axil chromies
Agile Chromis

Banded Coral Shrimp
Blood red fire shrimp
Hermit crabs only
Pretty much like all snails
I like urchins, but not set on a specific one
I really like brittle stars

Now onto tank setup. I believe the tank is an eclipse 25 setup. This has the built in filter in the hood. I cannot find any good pics on line. Ill take a closer look tomorrow. I do know it is two 18” t8’s. Will this work? I need to have both the tank and sump covered so my cats don’t go fishing. They will do so if its open.

Could you point me in the correct direction for installing the sump? I figure I need to do some drilling
J
 
#10 · (Edited)
With regards to getting an RO/DI unit. I have a small unit exactly like this here, it does 50gpd and can easily be removed and stored in a cupboard until needed. Note though it did not come with the DI unit which I purchased from the same vendor. It hooks up easily with included connectors to almost any faucet / tap.

Sumps - you can find a wealth of information here

Python - I use mine for both fresh and saltwater. I usually remove the saltwater first, dont use it to refill though as I have a separate pump for that, then I flush it out by doing the water change in the freshwater tank. I do 60% water changes in a 75g freshwater tank, so it has plenty of water to flush any remaining salt residue out.

Rocks - http://www.marcorocks.com/ offer dead dry rock which over time would become live, you would only need a few lbs of actual live rock to start cycling the tank and begin the process of the dead rock becoming live.

Hope it helps.
 
#11 ·
With regards to getting an RO/DI unit. I have a small unit exactly like this here, it does 50gpd and can easily be removed and stored in a cupboard until needed. Note though it did not come with the DI unit which I purchased from the same vendor.

Sumps - you can find a wealth of information here

Python - I use mine for both fresh and saltwater. I usually remove the saltwater first, dont use it to refill though as I have a separate pump for that, then I flush it out by doing the water change in the freshwater tank. I do 60% water changes in a 75g freshwater tank, so it has plenty of water to flush any remaining salt residue out.

Hope it helps.
On the RO/DI my buddy down the street has a unit. Im sure he will let me grab some water from him.

Sumps - Before i begin this, i want to have everything laid out from start to finish. Mainly so i can allocate money in a way that makes sense. I dont want to start buying part by part, and not be able to set up until next year. So i need to factor every piece of this project into a plan. Reefing Madness has a great starting list but im going to have to know what items i need for a sump, lights etc before I move forward. Ill look that site over and come back when i can propose my own plan, then you guys can help me make sure im doing it the right way.

I would like to use my python to refill as well (well i guess i wont for salt if I get RO/DI) but i assume if i go your way, then salt residue should be pretty much flushed out as i remove FW, then i should not have an issue adding FW.

Thanks everyone. Im excited to get started. Im going to ask alot of questions. But like I said, money is limited, so I want to do everything as best as I can. I need to know how and when I can spend my money. I want to make sure I can afford to finish the whole project in a reasonable amount of time before I buy anything else, but I dont want to buy junk items and create issues down the line.
 
#13 ·
Check out Anthias, I suspect it might be one of them :)

The thing with using a python to refill the saltwater is you would need a fairly powerful pump to attach to the hose and then into the pale you will use to mix the saltwater. Given the length of the hose, it may make it more difficult.

A ball park figure for all the equipment assuming you have the tanks (main and sump) is going to be around a $1000 if you buy all new equipment, the skimmer being one of the most expensive if not the most expensive. DO not skimp on the skimmer, you will seriously regret it down the line.
 
#14 ·
look into glass-holes.com for an over flow kit. next check out marco rock for dry rock. hydor is a good company for powerheads. the refractometer doesnt need to be digital, check ebay. it also wouldnt hurt to search your area for a local reefing club.

skip the catalina goby as the require cooler water for long term survival. unfortunately i would also skip all the anthias as they are pretty active fish requiring a larger tank.

the pink fish was prob. a pseudo chromis
 
#16 ·

Im going to say the fish she likes is a purple dotty back.


From Volusion, im assuming the $80 skimmer is what i would be looking at? It those prices i would get the next one up in hopes to move it to a bigger tank in the future, but then again, that would not be for at least two years.
And i would order all three powerheads?

The 50 pound box of Key Largo rock from Marco Rocks looks good to me.

I get the idea of sumps, but not exactly sure what it is ill need, and what i need to do to install and build it.

Im now taking noise into consideration as well, as this is in my office/ guest bedroom, and the stand is a double decker open metal stand.
 
#17 ·
As for the powerheads, no, you would just need to have a starting flow rate of 200gph. So one big powerhead or 2 at 100gph each.
$80 Skimmer would do ya, bigger the better. Noise is not a huge thing with a sump, I just get the water trickle noise coming from the outlets when my sump is alittle low. But other than that, nil for noise.
And this Link, originally post by Taz, is really a good read on Sumps.
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums
 
#18 ·
As for the powerheads, no, you would just need to have a starting flow rate of 200gph. So one big powerhead or 2 at 100gph each.
$80 Skimmer would do ya, bigger the better. Noise is not a huge thing with a sump, I just get the water trickle noise coming from the outlets when my sump is alittle low. But other than that, nil for noise.
And this Link, originally post by Taz, is really a good read on Sumps.
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums

OK im going to start building a list of equipment/prices. Ill also go over that site again, and try to figure out what is necessary for a sump, and post here and you guys can tell me what im doing wrong:lol:.

As far as hoods/lighting go, this is my hood:

Eclipse 2 Hood | ThatPetPlace.com

Im assuming the built in filter is not necessary. But since i have this hood id like to use it. Can i get by with the dual t-8 with some easy corals? What bulbs are necessary? Then I can upgrade to t5HO or whatever is reccomended down the line. I have not really looked into corals, i would just want something easy that will work with the t-8s for now.

And what type of sand is reccomended. Is live packaged ok? Any online vendors with something nicer?

Hopefully getting my security deposit back soon, so that will allow me to start buying. Thats why i would like to plan everything out now.:lol:
 
#19 ·
So im understanding sumps. I hope to start planning the layout and deciding on the materials I need this weekend. Im just a little confused on the overflow. Now, im assuming i dont need any drilling if im to use a hob overflow. Is this correct?

I think im seeing downsides to hob overflow. For one, i need to make sure it can work with my hood. Like I said, I cant have an open top or cats will be swimming:roll:. It looks like glass-holes has lids for the overflow so thats good. Second, the tank needs to be further out from the wall, which is whatever.

I have not found a way to calculate what size overflow and return pump i need. Could you guys point me in the right direction?
 
#21 ·
DIY Overflow Using Only PVC Pipe (DIY OVERFLOW PROJECTS)
1"pvc will usually accomadate 600gph, so you'll need a pump that will return up to that after you consider head loss.
Quiet One 3000- 540gph at 5' head.
Lifegard Aquatics

You are like magic.

So, when the water level lowers past the red tube the siphon will break and i will not flood as long as I calculate the max fill level in my sump? Is this correct? Im very concerned with flooding, and i dont always trust my DIY skills :p
 
#22 ·
No, not quite. Once the water goes lower than your intake pipe. Which should onle be an inch or so under water. ( The blue pipe in the tank ) When the water goes lower than this piece, the syphon is lost, thats why you don't want it going very low in the water. Once the syphon is lost, the water will remain in the big U tube on the back of your rig. You should attach a power head to the top air line coming from the overflow, leave the powerhead in the sump, I use an Aqualifter on my overflow, when power is lost the syphon will break. When the power comes on you want the powerhead to suck out the air in the line there, this will restart the syphon.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aqua-Lifter...750?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aab106eae
 
#23 ·
No, not quite. Once the water goes lower than your intake pipe. Which should onle be an inch or so under water. ( The blue pipe in the tank ) When the water goes lower than this piece, the syphon is lost, thats why you don't want it going very low in the water. Once the syphon is lost, the water will remain in the big U tube on the back of your rig. You should attach a power head to the top air line coming from the overflow, leave the powerhead in the sump, I use an Aqualifter on my overflow, when power is lost the syphon will break. When the power comes on you want the powerhead to suck out the air in the line there, this will restart the syphon.
Aqua Lifter, Aqualifter Pump by Tom AW-20 Drip/Dose | eBay

OK so this may be stupid, but is it a powerhead or a pump, or same thing lol? You said attatch a powerhed and leave it in the sump, but what you linked looks to me like it does not sit in water. But maybe im just not understanding how it works.

I do understand the rest of the overflow setup. Thanks
 
#27 ·
Sorry if Im being a pain:-D, i just dont want to move real fast. I want to plan every detail out so I have no $$$$ suprises (and will have better luck with the tank!)

This is my ongoing list of supplies. It is by no means the final list. Im OK with the hardware as stated by reefing, as Long as it works for what i need it. I do have a few questions below. My goal is to get both tanks cleaned up and at my apartment, have the sump chambers planned out, have a full equipment list planned out, and a stock list planned out this weekend. Then im going to start by building the over flow and sump. Making sure It all works, then ill start ordering everything else.

I thank everyone again for all their help!



Protein Skimmer (if sump permits, I would like to buy the bigger one) - $80 or $130 http://znnea.rmuvx.servertrust.com/default.asp

Powerhead (I wanna do 20x because I do plan on keeping some kind of coral, whatever works in my tank. I also figure having two smaller is better than one larger, so if one fails ill at least have some flow. Until I can replace. Make sense?) - $32 - Two 290gph Powerhead/Pump For Aquarium Reef Fish Coral | eBay


Refractometer – 27 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-RHS-10ATC-0-10-Salinity-Refractometer-Salt-Water-Aquarium-/280922112077?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416843404d&afsrc=1


Sump return Pump - $70 [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-One-Aquarium-Pump-3000/dp/B000256E6W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346992554&sr=8-1&keywords=quiet+one+3000"]http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-One-Aquarium-Pump-3000/dp/B000256E6W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346992554&sr=8-1&keywords=quiet+one+3000[/ame]


DIY Overflow - $20 http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-overflow/120.asp


Overflow Pump $20 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aqua-Lifter-Aqualifter-Pump-by-Tom-AW-20-Drip-Dose-NIB-/320697560750?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aab106eae&afsrc=1


Test Kits – Looks like it will be around $50 for everything Total. Is Liquid API OK or are there better brands.


Heater- I have 3 heaters, just need to confirm Watts and test them all out.


Lights - Can you suggest something for my dual t-8. I would like to start with that now as I assume it will be OK for the fish and maybe some coral. I can always upgrade it when I get more into coral and all.


Rock – So Do I need 50 pounds, or 25? Since the DT is 25gal and the sump is 20, how much is the “minimum” i need. I will buy that minimum in dry and get a few pounds of live to seed.


Sand – All live sand? Prepackaged or something better like from an online vendor?
 
#29 ·
Just 25lbs LR is what you would need to start for a FOWLR.
Live Sand or all dead substrate, all up to you.
I use API Test kits. There are better, and much more expensive ones out there. Salifert. Hanna.
Lights at T-8, 10-12k lamps. One Actinic one white.
MARINE-GLO ACTINIC AQUARIUM SALTWATER BULB T8 30W 36" | eBay
My bad, I don't know how long your fixture is.
Ocean Sun Fluorescent T-8 Lamp - 10,000k - 15W - 18 in. | ThatPetPlace.com
Coral Sun 420nm T8 Actinic Fluorescent Lamp - 18 in. | ThatPetPlace.com

Even with the length difference these prices are alot cheaper then what you linked. Are they lesser quality or the wrong Bulbs?
 
#30 ·
Bleh, im having such a hard time trying to plan this sump. Im just not good with this kinda stuff. This is what I have so far. Top View



The skimmer dimensions are 4.25" L x 7" W x 17" H .

Im not sure if I can put a seperate intake chamber that way as i donno how the skimmer would fit.

I also dont know how tall the baffles should be. I assume like 13 inches?

Side View:



Any of this making sense? Am i on the right track? Please help :)

Note : drawings not to scale
 
#44 ·
Bleh, im having such a hard time trying to plan this sump. Im just not good with this kinda stuff. This is what I have so far. Top View



The skimmer dimensions are 4.25" L x 7" W x 17" H .

Im not sure if I can put a seperate intake chamber that way as i donno how the skimmer would fit.

I also dont know how tall the baffles should be. I assume like 13 inches?

Side View:



Any of this making sense? Am i on the right track? Please help :)

Note : drawings not to scale
OK so Since is was a little confusing (at least for me) because we were talking about two diffrent sump setups. What is suggested I switch/change (if anything) before I go ahead with this build. Ill be using 1/4 inch glass and aquarium safe silicone. Here are my questions:

For the intake, I saw the 4x4inch box on melevsreef and some other sites/videos. What is the best setup for the intake? Should it flow directly into the skimmer chamber or Should it flow into that 4x4 box and overflow into the skimmer chamber (it should not be as tall as it is in my pic). What is needed on it? On the DIY overflow ill use, im supposed to use a PVC barb to connect a hose to go into the sump, however they did not have PVC, only brass, so thats no good. I assume I can go straight into the intake via PVC.

Skimmer chamber is OK. Just needs to fit the skimmer. If the water at 13 inches deep is then I may need to raise the skimmer Up with something.

Fuge is OK. Just sand (deep sand bed? 6-8 inches?) and algea, then into the return, where my heaters will be?

Anything I should change, or consider doing differently? Are my measurements OK for the chambers? Both Chamber width and baffle height?

I painted the back of the DT black and have just about everything for the overflow. Im ready to finialize this sump plan and get the glass ordered!
 
#33 ·
Add some Culpera as well in the sump along with the Chaeto, more macro algae, more they will absorb the excess nitrates

:thumbsup: on the sump design, one thing I would consider doing though is split the return line to the fuge and not the intake line. That way you are returning "cleaned" water back into the sump and not having dirty water coming in from the overflow.

I recently removed my filter sock from my sump as I found it to be getting too dirty for my liking and cleaning it way too often. I did have some issues in my tank and as they seem to be sorted I will perhaps return it. Keep an eye on it and dont allow it to become to dirty.
 
#34 ·
Add some Culpera as well in the sump along with the Chaeto, more macro algae, more they will absorb the excess nitrates

:thumbsup: on the sump design, one thing I would consider doing though is split the return line to the fuge and not the intake line. That way you are returning "cleaned" water back into the sump and not having dirty water coming in from the overflow.

I recently removed my filter sock from my sump as I found it to be getting too dirty for my liking and cleaning it way too often. I did have some issues in my tank and as they seem to be sorted I will perhaps return it. Keep an eye on it and dont allow it to become to dirty.

So im not 100% sure i follow. Are you pretty much saying do what MiamiLeos did? That design was a little to crazy for me at first, I was sure my design was all wrong, but please help me make adjustments! :-D

Thanks everyone!
 
#35 ·
I'm only doing this design because the fuge is really important to me. I want to produce a lot of pods and macro algae because eventually I would like to have a manderin in the tank and they need the pods. Lots of people do the sump like your lay out! Only reason I have mine the way it is is because I dont want "skimmed" water going in/out of the fuge, making it harder to grow pods and algae.
 
#36 ·
OK that makes sense, thanks. If that way is OK for me to, or if Taz can elaborate a bit, ill change plans, but my mind could only start with the simple option.

How are you making your sump. Im reading all sorts of different things im creating my own confusion. Im going to be using a glass tank. So it seems like the best thing to do is use glass baffles, as its hard to bond acrylic to glass. There is also a concern with acrylic expanding and breaking the glass.

Does lowes or Home depot cut glass. What thickness will i need? and do the baffles in the sump need teeth?
 
#37 ·
I'm doing the same thing, using a glass aquarium. I wish home depot cut glass but they dont. Have to find like a window or glass cutting place. I've been told that 1/4 inch glass is what is normally used. 1/8 inch is too brittle. Instead of teeth on the top baffle of my fuge, I plan to just put some egg crate to keep the snails and what not in. Same principal.
 
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