starting new 110G fowlr
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starting new 110G fowlr

This is a discussion on starting new 110G fowlr within the Beginner Saltwater Aquariums forums, part of the Saltwater Fish and Coral Reef Tanks category; --> well i did it. just orderd 110g tank and stand (salt water newb) had fresh water tank years ago and always wanted to try ...

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starting new 110G fowlr
Old 02-14-2010, 07:14 PM   #1
 
starting new 110G fowlr

well i did it. just orderd 110g tank and stand (salt water newb)
had fresh water tank years ago and always wanted to try salt water.
after some consideration and reading these forums gave me the curage to go for it.
it will take about two weeks for tank to come. im sure i will need advice and you
guys/ gals sure sound like the people to get it from.
the owner of the lfs seems good but i dont want to count just on him.
i ordered the tank, wet dry filter, live sand, T5 lights,salt,sponge,test kit and a couple other things
the owner of the lfs said i needed to get started. he told me to wait on live rocks and protein skimmer for now.
when do you think that should go in?
wish me luck and i hope to hear from you soon.
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:44 PM   #2
 
also do you have advice on what skimmer i should use. ie romora c or should i just take what im sold if different.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:50 PM   #3
 
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Saltwater newb here myself but Im two weeks into my first aquarium and its doing well so far. Because it would be difficult to mix 110 gallons of saltwater beforehand, I would suggest filling the tank pretty and then add your salt and allow it to mix thoroughly for 24 hours and then test your salinity and adjust as needed. Your going to want to leave some room for your sandbed and live rock. Personally if it was me I would buy my Aragonite and base rock from Marco Rocks. This is just what you need to get started, 75 Pounds Key Largo Rock, <br>160 Pounds Bahamas Aragonite Sand<BR>pay shipping on rock only - KL75-160. Seed this with 25-35 of live rock and you will be off to a great start.

I just ordered the AquaC Remora with Maxi-Jet 1200 and surface prefilter box for my 29 gallon saltwater tank. Again Im new, but I think your going to need more skimming than the AquaC Remora will provide you for a 110G tank. Maybe a couple could do it but I am sure there is a better option. Pasfur could help you out with this

Your going to either want a 1" sand bed or a 4-6" sand bed. You will need to decide on what you want. Your also going to need several powerheads for water movement in your tank.

Do you have a source for RODI (Reverse Osmosis De Ionized) water? If not you either need to buy yourself an RODI system or find a place to purchase it. With a tank this large buying your own will pay for itself before long.

Your going to need a calcium supplement and a Alkalinity buffer as well. BIonic is a good choice here for beginners like you and myself. Im waiting for mine to arrive as well as my skimmer.

These are just some of the basics. Im sure Pasfur will be along to offer advice when he see's the thread. Listen to him, he knows what he is talking about! Only other thing I can add is BE PATIENT! You made the investment, and you want it to payoff by having a beautiful tank and happy, healthy fish. Make sure your tank is fully cycled and stable before adding any CUC and fish.

Good luck, Ill be watching the progress.

Edit: Oops, I re-read and saw that you already have your sand. So 75lbs of Key Largo rock would be a great investment. As far as listening to your LFS, they CAN give good advice, but the majority are unfortunately out to make a buck and not purely interested in seeing you succeed long term. They would be looking to sell you fish a week in knowing they were going to die so you would be back to get more in the future. Now Im not saying anything bad about your specific LFS, this is just LFS's in general. Most stores carry a specific line of products that they get the best deals on and can mark up the most for profit, not what indeed works the best. I would definately wait for someone on here to recommend a specific model of skimmer.

Last edited by n1zjd; 02-14-2010 at 08:55 PM..
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:53 AM   #4
 
Mike,
Thanks for your response, will look into the Key Largo Rock, but my LFS said he will sell me live rock I will mix both the live rock & the Key Largo Rock? How much live rock do you think I should purchase? I will ask my LFS when I pick up my tank also. Will also look into an RODI system since I will be needed to change/use so much water.
Dom
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:09 AM   #5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dom2477 View Post
Mike,
Thanks for your response, will look into the Key Largo Rock, but my LFS said he will sell me live rock I will mix both the live rock & the Key Largo Rock? How much live rock do you think I should purchase? I will ask my LFS when I pick up my tank also. Will also look into an RODI system since I will be needed to change/use so much water.
Dom
I seeded a little less than 30 pounds of base rock with a little less than 15 pounds of live rock with very good results. I used my base rock from Marco Rocks. You could probably seed the whole tank with 15 to 20 pounds of live rock. Just get some cured live rock rubble from your LFS... most will give it to you for free when you buy the live rock. I placed mine in the back of my rock structure on the sand to help seed the sand as well.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:51 AM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dom2477 View Post
. im sure i will need advice and you
guys/ gals sure sound like the people to get it from.

i ordered the tank, wet dry filter, live sand, T5 lights,salt,sponge,test kit and a couple other things
the owner of the lfs said i needed to get started. he told me to wait on live rocks and protein skimmer for now.
when do you think that should go in?
Thanks for the vote of confidence and welcome to the saltwater side of the hobby!

I need to tell you something right off the bat, so prepare yourself. Are you sitting down? A wet dry filter is exactly what you do NOT want in a marine aquarium. I have no idea why the LFS recommended such a concept. In fact, this tells me a lot about the backgroundl of the LFS you are dealing with. There is no acceptable reason in the hobby today for anyone to suggest a wet dry filter to a customer. It us just totally unacceptable and borderline unethical.

A wet dry filter, by design, breaks down nitrogeneous compounds to produce nitrate. This process also depletes carbonates from the water. In a marine tank there are 2 main goals that will lead to long term success. These are to reduce nitrates and to stabilize alkalinity and calcium. Alkalinity and calcium levels rely on carbonate buffering ions to be at the proper ratios. So, bottom line, you have purchased a filter which causes both of these processes to be in constant fluctuation, making the care of a marine aquarium EXTREMELY difficult and time consuming. This filtration concept is the reason why the marine side of the hobby has such a bad reputation, because LFS owners continue to stock the incorrect equipment for maintaining these systems. Can you tell I am fired up angry at this LFS?

Ok, back to your tank. Now that I have blown off some steam. Saltwater aquariums are easy to maintain when set up properly. You need to return the wet dry system and purchase a protein skimmer and live/dry rock. The protein skimmer will REMOVE these organic acids that cause nitrate buildup and carbonate depletion. This creates a stable environment which is capable of supporting marine livestock without the constant stress caused by fluctuating water parameters.

The live/dry rock will provide all of the necessary bacteria you need to break down nitrogeneous waste, AND they will process the waste naturally, with an end result of nitrogen gas (NOT nitrate). This is the method that has been used by nearly the entire marine hobby for the last 15 years, with the exception of some LFS employees that do not have the background or knowledge to properly understand marine filtration concepts. (I am so angry at this shop. A wet dry filter??? Are you kidding me????!!!!!)

This does not need to be an expensive project for you. You can purchase dry rock from Marco Rocks The finest aquarium rock available, base rock, live rock, reef rock, marco rock, reef tank saltwater fish, live corals, Marco rocks, Fiji live rock, Tonga Live rock at a huge discount. You will want about 100 pounds of dry rock. You can then "seed" the dry rock with 15 to 20 pounds of CURED live rock from your LFS. You may find that an additional 25 pounds of dry rock will make your reef structure have the appearance you want. I personally used about 250 pounds of total rock in my 180, about 230 of which is dry rock. In a few short months the dry rock will have a beautiful appearance:


For a protein skimmer, you have some options. It would be best to use a sump system. You may just want to convert the wet dry system you purchased into a sump for a protein skimmer. However, it would most likely be less expensive to use a 20 gallon aquarium as a sump. Is your tank drilled? If you are using a sump, then here are some protein skimmers suggestions:
Red Sea Berlin X2 Venturi Skimmer with Pump
http://www.marineandreef.com/Berlin_...p/rrs50050.htm
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/203767/product.web


Each of the above simmers will do the job. Just measure the available space in your sump and base the purchase on what is the most user friendly for your needs. I personally use an ASM G3 on my 180. The ASM G2 is the 3rd link above. I think you will like it and it is very affordable for the results.

If you are not using a sump, let me know and I will give you some hang on tank options.

Some pictures of your equipment would help further. Also, what are your long term intentions for livestock?

Last edited by Pasfur; 02-15-2010 at 10:55 AM..
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:23 PM   #7
 
Ok first off i need to say sorry to pasfur for getting you firred up.
Spoke with lfs today before reading your reply. And went over what i was getting.
Wet/dry filter with carbon and bio balls . When i mention live rock he was suprised.
He said if im putting in live rock and its not a fo tank i do not need the bio balls.
My question is this if i was starting out with a fish only tank and slowly adding rock would i be able to do this ? Only becuase im not sure how much rock i will need to stablize the water or how much longer that will take. (not in a hurry) i will wait and i want to do it right the first time. I will order rock from marco rock and the lfs said he will throw in 30lbs live rock for the confusion. I was there with my wife and i can see where the mistake came from. He thougtht we wanted to start with fish only and slowly buy rock as we learn. And then my wife mentioned coral at a later time.
What is your thoughts still return trickle filter? Or take it slow and learn at a little more expense? Allready spending a fortune. We bought t5 lighting becuase of future hopes.
You also asked if the tank is drilled. Yes drilled and with overflow installed.
I will wait to hear from you before i talk again to the lfs

thanks again in advance. And dont get up set.

Signed clueless dom

NO PICS YET TANK NOT COMING FOR TWO WEEKS
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:12 PM   #8
 
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The general rule of thumb for live rock is 1lb per gallon, or 110lbs in your case. This can vary depending on the quality/density of the rock. 75lbs of key largo and 30lbs from your LFS and you would have an awesome tank. What is the depth on a 110G tank? Depending on what you plan to have for corals you might need a better light. T5 doesnt have alot of penetrating power but that can be countered by keeping the coral up high on the LR and placing less photosynthetic corals down low.

Yes, I would return the filter. Your going to need a protein skimmer though, but a skimmer combined with live rock and a live sand bed is all your tank will need for filtration. My tank has been running for just over two weeks without a skimmer and things are running just fine right now, mine will be here Thursday. The problem with running without a skimmer however is the amount of detritus that accumulates on the sand bed, which produces nitrates and phosphates promoting algae growth.

Until you have one you can counter this problem by siphoning off the detritus from your sandbed and live rocks but ultimately you WILL need a skimmer.
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:13 AM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dom2477 View Post
well i did it. just orderd 110g tank and stand
the owner of the lfs seems good but i dont want to count just on him.
i ordered the tank, wet dry filter, live sand, T5 lights,salt,sponge,test kit and a couple other things
the owner of the lfs said i needed to get started. he told me to wait on live rocks and protein skimmer for now.
congrats on coming over to saltwater. they say the tank is one of the cheapest purchases. i underlined that sentence because it is the best advice you gave yourself, and i dont even think you know you gave it. pasfur covered the wet/dry but it may not be completely useless. if you could post pictures of it, that would be great. however if your going with a sump a used fish tank seems to work great and is cheap. what exactly is the sponge? the skimmer is where you want to shell out whatever bucks are possible. READ online reviews on brands and models of skimmers. It is important to research a skimmer prior purchase as some work very well as others not so much. A skimmer rated for a larger tank and of known quality and performance is what i suggest. It also may be a wise idea to search in your area for a local reefing club. as of now i know your not aiming for a reef but they are a great place to learn, meet people and even trade equipment. the only other advice i can offer is to read anything and everything you get your hands on saltwater related until you cant, and i mean that if your serious about doing this right. if you have any questions please feel free to ask and ill help to the best of my ability. welcome to the forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasfur View Post
The live/dry rock will provide all of the necessary bacteria you need to break down nitrogeneous waste, AND they will process the waste naturally, with an end result of nitrogen gas (NOT nitrate).
pasfur i know you meant all the rock in total but i just wanted to clear this up so no one got confused. the LIVE rock will provide the needed bacteria. the DRY rock will take atleast a few weeks to seed itself with the needed bacteria to become "LIVE." When adding dry rock to established tanks i suggest curing it in a seperate tank prior to the display. Since this is the start of this tank you could get away with seeding your dry rock with your live rock from the start.
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:41 AM   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dom2477 View Post
Wet/dry filter with carbon and bio balls . When i mention live rock he was suprised.
He said if im putting in live rock and its not a fo tank i do not need the bio balls.
I understand exactly where his theory of filtration is coming from. This was common in our hobby in the 1980's and early 90's, prior to the development of protein skimmer and wide spread availability of live rock at an affordable cost. During these years most marine systems were NOT successful. Most people lost a lot of livestock and quit the hobby, as keeping Nitrate levels under control is nearly impossible.

During the early 1990's the hobby grew rapidly. The scientific community, local fish clubs, public and private universities, and the experts in our hobby conducted intense research in the field for the first time ever. We began to understand how marine systems work and stopped using freshwater filtration concepts such as biological filters, which lead to unstable water conditions. This change took place nearly 15 years ago. I was a marine fishkeeper during this time and prior, so I am very passionate about the success this hobby has had, and I understand how difficult it used to be compared to today.

Today the hobby is rather easy, provided you have the proper guidance. You do not want to use bioballs for ANY aquarium, regardless of the type of livestock you want to keep. You need to create a natural environment which is free of nitrate buildup. This is accomplished with live rock and protein skimming. Carbon filtration and biomedia are not the answer. These systems cause you do to frequent water changes of large size, creating a stable income stream for the LFS as you purchase salt mix, water conditioner, and test kits at a far greater frequency than necessary.

Quote:
My question is this if i was starting out with a fish only tank and slowly adding rock would i be able to do this ? Only becuase im not sure how much rock i will need to stablize the water or how much longer that will take.
It is actually much faster than when using biomedia. This is a benefit to the LFS, because you are ready to buy livestock much sooner. This is why LFS that utilize natural systems for their customers are much more successful. Their customers are more successful, buy livestock quicker, and have less problems. They become hobbyists, and almost always set up multiple aquariums, because they enjoy the hobby.

[quote}
I will order rock from marco rock and the lfs said he will throw in 30lbs live rock for the confusion. I was there with my wife and i can see where the mistake came from. He thougtht we wanted to start with fish only and slowly buy rock as we learn. And then my wife mentioned coral at a later time.[/quote]
Again, corals have nothing to do with live rock. Live rock is added to create a natural system, which benefits the fish, the fishkeeper, and the LFS.

Quote:
What is your thoughts still return trickle filter? We bought t5 lighting becuase of future hopes.
You also asked if the tank is drilled. Yes drilled and with overflow installed.
Yes, return the trickle filter. Or post a picture and we can modify the unit if it is designed in such a way as to remove the biomedia. Your best option, however, is to return the filter, get your money back, and build your own sump out of an aquarium. This is far cheaper. Read this thread for how:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/m...g-sumps-15930/

You have a big advantage because your tank is drilled. Credit the LFS for recognizing this. Also, please explain to your LFS that our goal is not to bash the LFS. Our goal is to make you successful so that you spend money at the LFS over the long term, rather than quit the hobby in 6 months. You will be a life long loyal customer, because you will love this hobby if you do it correct.

Quote:
thanks again in advance. And dont get up set.
I was never upset with you. Just beyond frustrated that this conversation is still taking place some 10 to 15 years after most LFS offering marine livestock became aware of the need to carry different equipment on their shelves. A good LFS will not even have a wet dry filter on their shelf. Instead, they will have multiple models of protein skimmers and several live rock vats, offering rock of different quality and price.


Quote:
Originally Posted by onefish2fish View Post
pasfur i know you meant all the rock in total but i just wanted to clear this up so no one got confused. the LIVE rock will provide the needed bacteria. the DRY rock will take atleast a few weeks to seed itself with the needed bacteria to become "LIVE." When adding dry rock to established tanks i suggest curing it in a seperate tank prior to the display. Since this is the start of this tank you could get away with seeding your dry rock with your live rock from the start.
As always, Jon and I see eye to eye on marine filtration concepts. By the way, about 3 or 4 months ago Marco Rocks began to cure their dry rock before shipping. Since this time, it is really not necessary to cure the rock before placing it into the tank. This is new, so I don't think Jon is aware of this yet. My step brother, ShaggyLawson, just ordered from Marco and placed the rock directly in the tank. There was no spike in ammonia or nitrite, so I trust the process. My last order in November 2009 was also added directly to my 180, with no spike.

Given that your tank is new and without fish, I would add the dry rock directly to the tank. The live rock will provide the bacteria (as Jon said) and quickly seed the dry rock. Given that all marine fish are quarantined for 3 weeks prior to adding to the tank, you will have no issues with having the correct amount of rock or bacteria to support livestock.
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