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Saltwater tank

This is a discussion on Saltwater tank within the Beginner Saltwater Aquariums forums, part of the Saltwater Fish and Coral Reef Tanks category; --> Most of the fish from Finding Nemo are ok for you. One fish you absolutely can not have is the Morish Idol. These fish ...

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Old 02-17-2009, 09:21 PM   #11
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Most of the fish from Finding Nemo are ok for you. One fish you absolutely can not have is the Morish Idol. These fish do not survive in the aquarium for any period of time, unless in the hands of a very experienced hobbyist with a VERY large aquarium.

The fish on your list so far look very nice and are good hardy fish for a beginner.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:41 PM   #12
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no need to say sorry, infact i am very please you want to continue to do reasearch and do things right. in the long term it will pay off, thats for sure. the reason i asked about lighting and skimming and so forth is because its something your going to need but if thats ahead of you thats fine. slow is the way to go.

so far that stock list sounds good to me. your going to want snails. a clean up crew ( CUC ) is the first of things you add after the diatom bloom. i personally like a variety of snails.. astrea, cerith, nerite, stomatalla, turbo, nassarious and i avoid crabs and honestly hermit crabs too as they wont hesitate to rip snails from there shell for their shell. i also have a sea cucumber. all the different shrimp are pretty awesome too (besides a mantis shrimp which if your keeping should have its own special setup)

it wouldnt hurt to look in your area for a local reefing club. my club is $12 a year and we hold monthly meetings, have a chance to buy/sell/trade cheap corals frags, equipment, meet some great people with the same interest, and learn a ton of things.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:31 PM   #13
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hey that's why we're here fishdad1 :). I, and I know others, are really encouraged by your desire to research and understand everything before you dive in. So I'm (and we're) happy to share all our knowledge and answer your questions. You mentioned not really understanding the parts of a sump, so I'll give a brief overview here. There's a longer post written by one of our resident experts, that I don't have a link to off-hand, but hopefully someone else can post a link for it. I'll give you the short version here:

There are two primary benefits of a sump: (1) increasing the total water volume in your system, adding stability to your parameters and helping dilute nasties in the water ("the solution to pollution is dilution"), and (2) providing a convenient place to place your equipment out of sight.

The three main parts of your run-of-the-mill sump, are (1) the inlet/skimmer chamber, (2) a refugium chamber, and (3) the return pump chamber. Each of these three chambers are normally separated by two or three baffles, that trap bubbles preventing bubbles from making it to the return chamber and back into the display (so you don't have lots of small bubbles swirling about your display). The inlet chamber, is where the overflow from the display comes, and is also where a protein skimmer is recommended to reside (so it is skimming the water directly from the display). I personally also put my heater in this chamber. The refugium is a place where you can put macro algae (a bushy-looking algae that helps absorb nitrates from the water), also providing a place for small critters to reproduce and provide a natural food source for the livestock in your display. If you have macro in a refugium, you will also have a light over the sump (algae needs light!), and it is useful to put it on a reverse cycle from the display (off when display lights are on, on when display lights are off) to help stabilize pH. The return pump chamber is just that: the chamber where your return pump sits and pumps water back into the display. Normally, the return pump chamber is the only place where water level is affected by evaporation (since the display and other chambers have water filling up and flowing over baffles, they stay at a constant level).

There are two possible arrangements of these three chambers (in terms of order that water flows): (1) inlet -> refugium -> return, and (2) refugium -> return <- inlet. The (2) is done by splitting the overflow from the display to either side of your sump. This allows you to control how much water passes through the refugium and skimmer section, instead of making the flow rate the same for both as it would be in (1). Refugiums ideally have a slower flow, so (2) allows you to make this happen.

Hope that helped!
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:47 PM   #14
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i posted the link early on but here it is again:
i have the split over flow with 2 inlets, so my sump is:
skimmer (inlet)| bubble trap | return pump | bubble trap | refugium (inlet)

keep in mind the rock in the refugium can actually trap things do to the low flow. i just have that in there to hold it wet while im finishing up my next build.
and heres the left side:

the big white pipe is the outlet of my skimmer

if you have DIY skills i strongly suggest building your own sump for 2 main reasons. first it is cheaper. the prebuilt sumps cost a fortune. secondly you can build it to fit your needs with chambers built to your size (some skimmers are in-sump and need room to fit their footprint plus return pumps ect.)
you can also build your stand around your sump or your sump around your stand (unless your plumbing your tank to the basement or elsewhere which i would then personally use a 100 or 150 gallon rubbermaid stock tub)
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:09 PM   #15
Okay, I have decided not to go with the 72. With the cleaning, odd stand size, and possible problems with adequate lighting I have decided against it and have narrowed it down to two sizes. I have decided that either a 75, that's 48 x 18 x 20, or a 100 gallon, thats 60 x 18 x 20. From what I gather so far, the height and depth of either would be more than adequate for a reef tank while the 75 gives me "enough" swimming length or the 100 giving me "more than enough" swimming space. Plus I really don't want anything bigger than 100 because I don't want to get crazy with my spending.
With that being said I was thinking that a 40 gallon breeder tank might be big enough to accommodate a sump for either of these tanks. Am I thinking correctly or does it need to go bigger? Yes, I would like to try to build my own sump. I feel that I still need to learn more about how to do that and how to set up the different sections, I mean sizes and what hardware to use.

I am sure this is going to sound dumb to you guys, but in the refugium I should have sand, small corals, and algae, could this area be used to hold a small breeding pair or eggs? Also could it be used as a grow-out area for fry, or is all of this a dumb idea?
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:15 PM   #16
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just a small suggestion, and this is especially true if you are planning a fish-only with live rock (FOWLR) setup, then I'd suggest going for the 100 gallon. You cited "more than enough" swimming space, but I'd say instead you're just getting to the size where you can keep some of the cooler saltwater fish species.

The difference between 4 feet and 6 feet of swimming space is pretty significant, several of the larger and more attractive species (including tangs) would be very constrained in a 4 foot tank.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:23 PM   #17
I would like to do a reef tank but I would like it to be big enough that any fish that I do put in it are not cramped for space. Plus I said before that I would like to have a blue hippo tang and a yellow tang in it, so I would have to accommodate them as well as all of the other organisms in the tank. I just want to do this right provide the best environment I can for whatever animals and/or corals I do get.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:39 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by fishdad1 View Post
while the 75 gives me "enough" swimming length or the 100 giving me "more than enough" swimming space.
when is it ever enough?

a refugium is a slow flowing area for sand, macro algae ( i personally use chaetomorpha) to culture pods and beneficial organisms. granted you put proper lighting there isnt any reason you couldnt keep corals in a fuge HOWEVER it is slow flowing so this brings issue. you could also raise fry in it HOWEVER there is a pretty high chance they will get sucked over a baffle and blended in the return pump. You could use a refuge to temp. keep a fish that was being bad in your display HOWEVER it is not a QT as it will be hooked up to your display tank. I personally run my fuge light on a reverse cycle ( opposite the display tank lights ) to help stabalize the pH, everything is automated to turn on/off by timer.
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Old 02-19-2009, 06:04 AM   #19
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Honestly... I would suggest a 125 minimum. The cost will be minimal difference and the added swimming space critical for Tangs.

Of course, as long as you have 6'' tank, you might as well go 180.-)
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:46 PM   #20
Okay, I am sure if any of this is true or not but I hope someone is able to answer this for me. Because I want to do a reef setup, I will need live rock this much I know is correct. However, I have heard that lacerock can be used as live rock, it just has to be cured or turned into live rock somehow. My questions is, is this true that lacerock can be used as liverock? If so, what is involved the process of curing rock to be lacerock, I know it involves being immersed in water but do I have to do anything chemically to it? I only ask because I have seen the prices of some of the cured liverock at my lfs and I am not impressed by the price or esthetics of their selection. However, my friends' family owns their own landscaping company that has an abundance of lacerock and I can get 75lbs of lacerock from them for about 5 bucks. Which I think is a hell of a deal.
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