Windelov Java Fern turning black? - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 18 Old 12-23-2012, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lisa123 View Post
Thank you, Boredom!
I just saw another post from March and they said maybe the rhizome is planted too deep. I have it in my gravel, was careful so its not too deep. However, maybe that is still too much. Will place a rock on top of the roots on top of the gravel and see how that goes. I do have driftwood, but it would be a project to get that out to tie the roots around it! Will see if the lfs has a small piece of driftwood!!
Ok if the rhizome is buried it could be part of the problem. Its best if its above the substrate. If its buried it can rot and cause the plant to die. You can tie it to rocks as well it will be okay. It doesn't have to be driftwood just as long as its not buried it will be fine.

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post #12 of 18 Old 12-23-2012, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Will try that!! Thank you so much!!
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post #13 of 18 Old 12-23-2012, 09:13 PM
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Here the other thing I am wondering (Is this the only plant you have issues with?) about with a GH of just 4 your plants might not be getting the minerals they need like they would be with harder water. I know 5-6 Dgh is about the minimum for plants to grow properly. Maybe the part of the reason the extra Iron is working. Though I wonder if that might not cause other problems down the road also??? I know there is a product Seachems Equilibrium that is made to safely add the need minerals to raise the GH up. I wonder if this wouldn't be a better and safer way to add them then just adding Iron. Though if the Java fern is the only problem this might be a mute point. If Byron see this thread he can explain better then I ever could. I just know dosing just extra Iron and dosing too much can lead to other problems though not always.
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post #14 of 18 Old 12-27-2012, 04:42 PM
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I really would worry about that much iron. My first thought was an iron overdose. I would expect this to show up in other plants too, but not knowing what they are, it may be that the iron is affecting the slow-growing Java Fern more visibly. Any chance of a photo, of the JF and the tank generally?

The GH at 4 is about as low as you can have for plants. There is some "hard" mineral in Flourish Comprehensive too, so together this should be OK. JF does fine in soft water, and being a slow growing plant, this shouldn't be an issue.

Iron is a heavy metal, and while all heavy metals are essential to life there is a finite limit above which they become highly toxic to all life forms--animal/fish, plant and bacteria. While some plants can take up excess iron, there is a limit to this and I would not want to approach it.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If youíre going to take it under your wing then youíre responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #15 of 18 Old 12-27-2012, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Byron - thanks for responding. That's interesting about an Iron overdose. The fish store said its possible and I haven't had the water tested yet. What should I look for in too much iron? I was thinking of switching to the Seachem Equillibium - it sounds more balanced.
Here are some pictures of my tank and the JF. The JF in question is placed in the front right of the tank. I do have a JF on the left side, too that is sprouting new growth and sending roots down from it. Also, my rams decided to lay eggs 2 days ago for the second time in the back of the tank. The first time they were gone the next morning. This time they have survived two nights!!

Thanks!!

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post #16 of 18 Old 12-27-2012, 08:10 PM
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I still think this is iron-related. I don't know how much Seachem recommends for dosing their iron supplement, but I would certainly reduce it from what you have been doing. Some of the stem plants have faint traces of similar, though not the swords that I can see.

Plant nutrients must be balanced; each nutrient is required in a fairly specific proportion to all others. This is one reason i use and recommend comprehensive fertilizers like Flourish or FlorinMulti; they are balanced. As soon as you begin dosing any individual nutrient, you are upsetting that balance.

This can be OK in certain situations if a particular nutrient is lacking from the other usual sources. Example being the hard minerals, calcium primarily, along with magnesium and potassium. IF these are insufficient in the source water (tap or well) an additional dose beyond what is in Flourish can benefit. I need to use Equilibrium because of my very soft tap water, basically zero GH. But I have never dosed iron, at least not since the early 1990's when I did (on the advice of the store) and had problems then.

I wouldn't suggest Equilibrium yet for you, as I don't see evidence of hard mineral deficiency. Rather than use iron on its own, I would experiment with a second weekly dose of Flourish, and after a few weeks if the plants seem to be lacking something, a third. I have done this with good results. The point here is that it is keeping all nutrients in balance. The iron in Flourish should be sufficient, as it is balanced with the other nutrients.

Sorting out specific nutrient issues is not easy; the common deficiency symptoms can apply to more than one nutrient, and finding the one that may be missing a bit is tricky.

Hope this helps. In summary, I would reduce the iron (probably all together) and increase Flourish to twice weekly, full dose each time, 3 days apart.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If youíre going to take it under your wing then youíre responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #17 of 18 Old 12-28-2012, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you Byron!

The amount of knowledge on this site is simply amazing. Thank you for answering my questions so thoroughly!

I will only dose the Flourish 2x a week and see how it goes in the next weeks. I see what you are saying about the balance part - I think my tank is probably a little off balance for the plants. I'll let you know how it goes in the coming weeks!

Thanks again!
~ Lisa
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post #18 of 18 Old 12-29-2012, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Lisa123 View Post
Thank you Byron!

The amount of knowledge on this site is simply amazing. Thank you for answering my questions so thoroughly!

I will only dose the Flourish 2x a week and see how it goes in the next weeks. I see what you are saying about the balance part - I think my tank is probably a little off balance for the plants. I'll let you know how it goes in the coming weeks!

Thanks again!
~ Lisa
You're welcome.
It takes a few weeks for these changes to show up in the plants. I would think that after 5 weeks of the suggested scheme, if the plants are still looking good generally, it is working. On the JF, the existing leaves will not change (recover), just so you know; but the new growth should be OK, that is the test.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If youíre going to take it under your wing then youíre responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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