What is the relationship between nitrate and algae - Page 3
Tropical Fish

Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources » Freshwater Fish and Aquariums » Beginner Freshwater Aquarium » Beginner Planted Aquarium » What is the relationship between nitrate and algae

What is the relationship between nitrate and algae

This is a discussion on What is the relationship between nitrate and algae within the Beginner Planted Aquarium forums, part of the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium category; --> Let me just say this.......I have been raising fish for over 20 years and your so called "old myths" have worked for that long ...

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools vBmenu Seperating Image Search this Thread vBmenu Seperating Image
What is the relationship between nitrate and algae
Old 10-17-2009, 08:56 AM   #21
 
Fishin Pole's Avatar
 
Let me just say this.......I have been raising fish for over 20 years and your so called "old myths" have worked for that long for me.........I have over 13 tanks in my house and very minimal algae in any tank of mine, so obviously to me the old myths DO actually work and adding all the extra nutrients into you water is uneeded and a waste of money....My tanks are a mixture of heavily planted tanks to no plants at all and as i stated, algae is at minimum......Trying to beat people over the head with your methods is not the way to approach people here, remember everything that you read now is going to be outdated at sometime in the future.....Are YOU gonna change your ways when that time comes?..........Are you going to take the so called cutting edge "NEW" advice?........I doubt it, your to passionate about your ways to change and see any other facts that have been presented here......How is it that ALL the people here are wrong and you and your newly recruited friends are the only ones who know everything about algae?.........Recruiting members from your local area to back yourself up here is not doing this forum any good and your creating a hostile atmosphere with pointing out ALL the mistakes you think that we are all doing in our tanks...........There are some very knowledgable people here and belittling them because theyre ways and thinking dont jive with yours is just rude and wrong, no matter what side of the Big Pond your from.....You talk about learning new things, how about you learning new things and try to treat people with some respect, even if your opinion differs from theirs
Fishin Pole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 09:12 AM   #22
 
1077's Avatar
 
I will ,out of fairness,, visit the site recommended but am presently researching ..Redfield Ratio along with Tom Barr's Non CO2 method. I should perhaps note that my research thus far has not been confined to River systems you mentioned although I have spent a large portion of my life on them from the Potomac, to the Rio Grande. No, my interest lies in the primary causes for algae in aquariums. specifically non planted tanks and or low tech. these tanks hold fish and as such , I have no interest in dosing with fertz ,or chemicals ,or antibiotics.etc.
Again ,I thank you for sharing with a self confessed skeptic.
P.S. I would drink the water from my tanks at any given time of day or week. So, No,, poor tank maint would not be source for algae problem with my particular tanks.

Last edited by 1077; 10-17-2009 at 09:15 AM..
1077 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 09:15 AM   #23
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin Pole View Post
Let me just say this.......I have been raising fish for over 20 years and your so called "old myths" have worked for that long for me.........I have over 13 tanks in my house and very minimal algae in any tank of mine, so obviously to me the old myths DO actually work and adding all the extra nutrients into you water is uneeded and a waste of money,....My tanks are a mixture of heavily planted tanks to no plants at all and as i stated, algae is at minimum......
Heavily planted or not, your aquarium water may contain all appropriate nutrients needed by your plants for the amount of light you have. Secondly what is with the 5 point ellipses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin Pole View Post
Trying to beat people over the head with your methods is not the way to approach people here, remember everything that you read now is going to be outdated at sometime in the future.....Are YOU gonna change your ways when that time comes?
Yes if there is enough evidence to support the theory, Take einsteins theory of relativity, nobody can prove him wrong yet so it remains a theory yet people believe in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin Pole View Post
I doubt it, your to passionate about your ways to change and see any other facts that have been presented here......How is it that ALL the people here are wrong and you and your newly recruited friends are the only ones who know everything about algae?
Could that possibly because we have tanks with high nitrate and phosphate levels yet no algae??!! When algae is in a system and nitrates and/or phosphate are present also, people make a false correlation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin Pole View Post
Recruiting members from your local area to back yourself up here is not doing this forum any good and your creating a hostile atmosphere with pointing out ALL the mistakes you think that we are all doing in our tanks
Could this also possibly because there is a community of serious hobbyists, that actually try things scientifically, instead of making up points and then linking to papers that have nothing to do with planted aquaria??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin Pole View Post
There are some very knowledgable people here and belittling them because theyre ways and thinking dont jive with yours is just rude and wrong, no matter what side of the Big Pond your from.....You talk about learning new things, how about you learning new things and try to treat people with some respect, even if your opinion differs from theirs
Yeah, there are some knowledgeable people here, its just that they cant actually back up their claims, and they're not even willing to listen to the points we are making, we are backing up our points with relative information instead of papers about freshwater eco systems and not planted aquaria.
Jack Middleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 09:48 AM   #24
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin Pole View Post
Let me just say this.......I have been raising fish for over 20 years and your so called "old myths" have worked for that long for me.........I have over 13 tanks in my house and very minimal algae in any tank of mine, so obviously to me the old myths DO actually work and adding all the extra nutrients into you water is uneeded and a waste of money....My tanks are a mixture of heavily planted tanks to no plants at all and as i stated, algae is at minimum......Trying to beat people over the head with your methods is not the way to approach people here, remember everything that you read now is going to be outdated at sometime in the future.....Are YOU gonna change your ways when that time comes?..........Are you going to take the so called cutting edge "NEW" advice?........I doubt it, your to passionate about your ways to change and see any other facts that have been presented here......How is it that ALL the people here are wrong and you and your newly recruited friends are the only ones who know everything about algae?.........Recruiting members from your local area to back yourself up here is not doing this forum any good and your creating a hostile atmosphere with pointing out ALL the mistakes you think that we are all doing in our tanks...........There are some very knowledgable people here and belittling them because theyre ways and thinking dont jive with yours is just rude and wrong, no matter what side of the Big Pond your from.....You talk about learning new things, how about you learning new things and try to treat people with some respect, even if your opinion differs from theirs
i haven't said ALL the ppl are wrong, and i'm not pointing out ALL of the mistakes.
just one, and that's high nutrients don't cause algae.

i appreciate fully some here are very knowledgeable. but it does seem mainly it the older sources of info that are getting passed around.

if you have always run your tanks with low nutrient levels how would you know what effect elevated levels would have?
is it the fact you have low nutrients or the fact you have low lighting, good flow, good tank maintenance that has done you well?
but as you say, its always worked so why change? why question things?

having a low level of nutrients in your tanks and no algae is not proving high levels cause issues, is it?

having tanks with high levels and no algae surely does prove its not a cause tho'?


as for adding nutrients, my tap water has around 40ppm nitrates and 4ppm phosphate, so i'm not actually wasting any money.
the waste of money would come in if i still believed the "myth" perpetuated here and bought an RO unit or various other products to remove these so called "Problem nutrients"

of course most ppl in the UK and probably a lot of Europe have tap water high in nutrients, so by rights we should all have algae infested tanks??

i'm not saying ppl should chuck loads of nutrients in their tanks.
i'm saying not to worry about higher levels. keep the rest of the tank in order, lighting, co2, flow and maintenance and it will be fine.
baron von bubba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 09:54 AM   #25
 
1077's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Middleton View Post
Heavily planted or not, your aquarium water may contain all appropriate nutrients needed by your plants for the amount of light you have. Secondly what is with the 5 point ellipses?

Yes if there is enough evidence to support the theory, Take einsteins theory of relativity, nobody can prove him wrong yet so it remains a theory yet people believe in it.

Could that possibly because we have tanks with high nitrate and phosphate levels yet no algae??!! When algae is in a system and nitrates and/or phosphate are present also, people make a false correlation.

Could this also possibly because there is a community of serious hobbyists, that actually try things scientifically, instead of making up points and then linking to papers that have nothing to do with planted aquaria??


Yeah, there are some knowledgeable people here, its just that they cant actually back up their claims, and they're not even willing to listen to the points we are making, we are backing up our points with relative information instead of papers about freshwater eco systems and not planted aquaria.
In my expierience, many,not all,, planted tank folks are purist's. By that I mean the plants take precedence . It has also been my expierience that many fish simply don't do well with high nitrAte and or phosphates. So dosing with these nutrients for the sake of plants when not needed at the high doses you mention,, may curb the growth of algae but may have detrimentel affect on fish. I am aware that this forum frowns upon ,or forbids ,the suggesting of other forums but nothing ,,is to prevent some of your fellow believers from posting photos here of their tanks and then perhaps a discussion on methods could be further explored. Isn't that your hope?
I would welcome a photo of a tank full of java fern and anubia with high nitrate or phosphates being dosed on regular basis and no algae but then I suppose it would just be your word or those who posted the photo would it not?
No,, to me,, you seem to have trained your efforts at a rather lame attempt to discredit one or more members here while at the same time,, attempting to influence others with no proof offered.
I ,,and I suspect others,, Are willing to listen to differing views but show a little class.
Your efforts, thus far if examined closely,, may prove to be an embarrasment to you or perhaps not. in which case ,I will be embarrased for you.
1077 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 11:10 AM   #26
 


Cryptocoryne willisii x lucens
Microsorum pteropus
Anubias nana
Anubias nana petite
Pogosteemon helferi
Valliseneria nana

Ive just done a test on the tank and nitrate is 50ppm and phosphate is 3ppm

Surely a recipe for disaster going by the 'old' theory, then why is there no algae? and with it being a new tank, there is even more scope for algae, yet there isn't any, surely this says something? And when you can find proof that NO3 and PO4 levels that i dose on my tank will affect my fish, then i may believe what you say, but i know for a fact that nitrates are not harmful to fish until you get up to about 400ppm, and science has also proven this!
Jack Middleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 01:37 PM   #27
 
Byron's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Middleton View Post


Cryptocoryne willisii x lucens
Microsorum pteropus
Anubias nana
Anubias nana petite
Pogosteemon helferi
Valliseneria nana

Ive just done a test on the tank and nitrate is 50ppm and phosphate is 3ppm

Surely a recipe for disaster going by the 'old' theory, then why is there no algae? and with it being a new tank, there is even more scope for algae, yet there isn't any, surely this says something? And when you can find proof that NO3 and PO4 levels that i dose on my tank will affect my fish, then i may believe what you say, but i know for a fact that nitrates are not harmful to fish until you get up to about 400ppm, and science has also proven this!
Obviously there is no algae in this tank because the plants are utilizing the nutrients, whatever they may be, and speaking for myself I have never said high nutrients cause algae nor have I said phosphate alone. I would think just the opposite. Plants need 17 nutrients to exist and grow, in porportion. Although dosing excess of certain ones may cause problems in time. And I still would not sit idly by with nitrates at 50ppm in my aquaria. I never have nitrates above 5ppm, and algae is not a problem unless I overdose nutrients, which as I mentioned in one of the related threads I did and have now cut back, and algae has responded accordingly.
Byron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 02:07 PM   #28
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
Obviously there is no algae in this tank because the plants are utilizing the nutrients, whatever they may be
ok, so if the plants are using all of the available nutrients (or even just any one of them) that algae and plants require. how come the plants are showing no deficiency?
in a CO2 injected tank, as you'll probably know plants can grow upto 10 times faster, this speed of growth will show ANY deficiency extremely quickly.
the point of EI (estimated index) is to provide the plants with all of the nutrients they (and algae) require with nothing in limiting supply.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
whatever they may be, and speaking for myself I have never said high nutrients cause algae .
erm..............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
Algae generally occurs from an excess of organic materials and poor water quality, or an excess of nutrients.
Byron.



my play tank a little while ago
around 50ppm nites and 5ppm phos.
55 gallon
150 watts for 8 hours with a 2 hour burst of 250 watts
12 X water turnover per hour.
baron von bubba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 02:28 PM   #29
 
Byron's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by baron von bubba View Post
ok, so if the plants are using all of the available nutrients (or even just any one of them) that algae and plants require. how come the plants are showing no deficiency?
in a CO2 injected tank, as you'll probably know plants can grow upto 10 times faster, this speed of growth will show ANY deficiency extremely quickly.
the point of EI (estimated index) is to provide the plants with all of the nutrients they (and algae) require with nothing in limiting supply.




erm..............






my play tank a little while ago
around 50ppm nites and 5ppm phos.
55 gallon
150 watts for 8 hours with a 2 hour burst of 250 watts
12 X water turnover per hour.
My mistake, sorry, I typed nutrients, meant nitrates which was in your previous post, and that i've never said. I've answered the opriginal issue with my comments, you and others are free to disagree, I've no time to further this pointless discussion.
Byron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 03:23 PM   #30
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
Obviously there is no algae in this tank because the plants are utilizing the nutrients, whatever they may be, and speaking for myself I have never said high nutrients cause algae nor have I said phosphate alone. I would think just the opposite. Plants need 17 nutrients to exist and grow, in porportion. Although dosing excess of certain ones may cause problems in time. And I still would not sit idly by with nitrates at 50ppm in my aquaria. I never have nitrates above 5ppm, and algae is not a problem unless I overdose nutrients, which as I mentioned in one of the related threads I did and have now cut back, and algae has responded accordingly.
Let me lay down a few facts, Flourish consists of trace elements, Ammonium nitrate and mono potassium sulphate.

When you dose flourish at the recommended dose it adds 0.0005 ppm of phosphate, it also contains ammonium.
Low phosphate and ammonium cause algae, this will be why when you double dose you get noticeable algal growth.

How on earth does dosing excess nutrients cause problems in time?

And why would you not have nitrates above 5ppm? it isn't bad for the fish and it doesnt cause algae so why??
Jack Middleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
help with Nitrate please welshboy Beginner Freshwater Aquarium 8 03-18-2010 07:23 PM
Nitrate? MXS Freshwater and Tropical Fish 8 08-27-2009 05:06 PM
low nitrate black&whiteclowns Water Chemistry 1 04-28-2007 07:13 PM
low nitrate daisycutter Beginner Planted Aquarium 8 03-07-2007 06:27 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:52 PM.