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What do you think?

This is a discussion on What do you think? within the Beginner Planted Aquarium forums, part of the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium category; --> Also, red, forgot...I'm not sure if he is Tom Barr or not. Just that his username is beaslbob on the other forum....

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Old 01-06-2011, 11:52 PM   #31
 
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Also, red, forgot...I'm not sure if he is Tom Barr or not. Just that his username is beaslbob on the other forum.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:31 AM   #32
 
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@Mikaila, it seems that there is a lot of debate about how the larval stage of clams, whether they attach to gills or not. Sorry for the misinformation beforehand. If I do keep clams it'll be 1 per tank, and they will most likely be spot fed a few times a week to be sure I don't have an issue. Or I'll just start an infusoria culture (unless the snails would produce enough considering how many veggies I feed them? I love my snails :) )

Ok, just wanted to recap the changes in this plan (since I'm finally home now):
Soil Mix =
1.) Pond soil (collected from local pond. fyi - keeping the bacteria in mind, I may wash this soil over and over again, letting it dry out completely between washes...should I use dechorinated water or would it just be easier to use regular ol' tap?)
2.) OC Potting Soil
3.) Maybe a small amount of peat moss or untreated sawdust? Interested in the sawdust aspect.

The soil will be about 2" more or less. Opinions? I'll need to read more of Tom Barr's stuff before I decide.
If I do decide on a clam, between the soil and sand there will be a thin piece of plexiglass with lots of big holes, but not big enough to allow the clam to get through. He/She can have the 1" or so of sand. May attempt to designate an area just for him (maybe with some rocks) so I can keep a close eye on him. Again, that's if I decide on getting one.

Any plant suggestions? Would love a lot of moss and other ground plants (like grasses). Want to avoid anything that would potentially outgrow the tank as it'll be hard to pull them out. Thinking Frogbit for floating plant?
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:55 AM   #33
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redchigh View Post
Actually, I'm not convinced of 1077's opinion of the dry start method.

What do you think happens in the rainy season in the rainforest?
the water level soars by about 2 feet, and stays there for months. The plants have evolved to handle it.

Plus, it's a GREAT way to grow anubias. Sure, anubias is a slow grower if submerged. In a terrarium enviroment however, it grows much faster.

Also, Kazzy, you're not allowed to say the names of other forums, but you can say the member's name since he's one of the foremost experts in the field.
You're talking about Tom Barr, right?

Kazzy, Bloodworms swim in the water column... Blackworms live in the substrate.
Not sure if I would use blackworms in your setup though... That's a LOT of substrate. (about 3-4 inches total?)

Just found a catch-


I forgot he uses CO2.... Maybe think about Diana Walsteads version instead?
(The only difference I see is to use OC potting soil which has peat rather than using pure peat)
http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388Shrimp.pdf

In response to what happens during rainy season in Rainforest,, I think if one performed research, they would find that rain can collect quite a bit of CO2 as it falls from the atmosphere not to mention minerals that enter the streams,rivers from runoff.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:42 AM   #34
 
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Most of the aquarium plants we buy have been grown emersed. I don't know about you, but mine usually adapt fine to being thrown in the water.

I understand where you're coming from, I agree it's logical, but too many people have done this without any die-offs.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:11 AM   #35
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redchigh View Post
Most of the aquarium plants we buy have been grown emersed. I don't know about you, but mine usually adapt fine to being thrown in the water.

I understand where you're coming from, I agree it's logical, but too many people have done this without any die-offs.

Not so much that plant's die off, they simply discard leaves and slowly adapt to much lower CO2 levels . CO2 in the atmosphere is much greater than that in water and CO2 diffuses much more slowly in water.
Plant's that have been growing immersed with CO2 available from the air above the water,struggle when suddenly submerged until they can adapt. Much slower growth, and or shedding of leaves is not uncommon.
Other plant's can draw their carbon source(CO2) from the carbonate hardness of the water such as vallisneria while some plant's ,such as various forms of crypts ,simply melt and slowly sprout new growth.
I ain't no plant expert but have been researching and reading, and from all of my reading thus far,The dry start method favors CO2 enriched tanks much more so than low tech tanks for the plant's are not hurting for CO2 to nearly the degree that they are in low tech where once flooded after growing immersed,,they are suddenly forced to deal with much less CO2. Hope this makes sense.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:56 AM   #36
 
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lol. It does, and that's the hard part.
Up there ^ I said basically the same thing.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:09 PM   #37
 
I agree completely with 1077, I run CO2 enriched tanks and still avoid throwing emersed plants into the water. It depends a lot on the plant in question too. Crypts will melt, any emersed stems will shed ALL leaves, anubias won't do anything. It depends what plants you are buying, but the vast majority are actually grown underwater. Foilage and look can differ greatly in emersed form. The hygrophilias are good examples. I often see these in emersed form and have dealt with them as well. Often you would not recognize the two different growth forms. For H. corymbosa the leaves are different colors and different shapes, the plant itself is much stiffer so it can support its weight out of water. Vast majority of our aquariums plants, from stems, swords, and crypts flower in their emersed forms. Only a very, very few will do this under water.

I would like to see reports of plants switching without dying off, cuz I honestly have never heard of this. It is totally natural for the plant to lose its foliage when switching. This is often do to how the leaves function and the environment. Emersed leaves that are suddenly submersed tend to become water logged because they are designed to work in a dryer environment where they conserve water. Suddenly being surrounded by water and they do in the truest sense drown. The opposite switch the plant has not the structural support to grow well out of water, nor can the sumberesed leaves function well enough to retain needed water without drying out. Even in high tech tanks I plant emersed plants and naturally most shed all their leaves then are almost bear stems then start growing new very different growth and are happy as can be from then on.

Last edited by Mikaila31; 01-07-2011 at 12:13 PM..
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:26 PM   #38
 
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I understand there will be melting and such but the only reason I'm starting with dry start is to get them rooting well.
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