Vallisneria Problem (Kinda- Overgrowth) - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 23 Old 03-01-2010, 11:32 AM
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I just cut the tops off like you would grass in the yard. Depending on how new the leaf is, it may continue to grow. If it's a mature leaf, the end will start to rot. I don't view this as a bad thing however since your goal really is to thin the plants out. It won't kill the plant.

Even this however will not stop them. I usually pull up a bunch of them and resell them back to the LFS when I get at least 5-10 plants. Because of the runners. they end up all over the place. I'll also replant them back into the section where I want them.
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post #12 of 23 Old 03-01-2010, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisFish View Post
I just cut the tops off like you would grass in the yard. Depending on how new the leaf is, it may continue to grow. If it's a mature leaf, the end will start to rot. I don't view this as a bad thing however since your goal really is to thin the plants out. It won't kill the plant.

Even this however will not stop them. I usually pull up a bunch of them and resell them back to the LFS when I get at least 5-10 plants. Because of the runners. they end up all over the place. I'll also replant them back into the section where I want them.
Thank you for confirming my otherwise disregarded original response. Lawn mower tactics work. I'm telling ya. Bulldozer tactics anyone?

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post #13 of 23 Old 03-01-2010, 09:29 PM
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Underwater weedwhacker!!!

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post #14 of 23 Old 03-01-2010, 11:08 PM Thread Starter
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After having been here almost 1 year now I'm done dozering and I don't really wanna pull out the weed eater on it neither.....I'll see what I can do remodeling their home, take some plants out, move some around etc ...I just don't wanna cut it up to to make it rot

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post #15 of 23 Old 03-02-2010, 08:49 AM
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If you cut the ends at about the surface, the ends will start to rot, but it usually takes about 6-8 weeks that to affect the entire leaf. In the mean time, the plant will continue to grow news leafs and new plants via runners until the main plant reaches maturity. Then all the leaves will fall off the main root ball. But by then you'll have tons of new plants from all the runners.

If you want your tank to maintain a certain look, you'll have to pull up the extra Vals of else your entire tank will become nothing but Vals. If you look at my aquarium pics you'll see pictures of the tank about 1 year apart. The latest pics show how big the Java fern got in the front middle of the tank. Look at the Vals in that pic. You can see how much they had spread to the left-side of the tank. And that was after I removed some.

Happy pruning.

Last edited by WisFish; 03-02-2010 at 08:53 AM.
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post #16 of 23 Old 03-02-2010, 09:14 AM
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Not long ago while researching plants that I am contemplating for a planted tank come spring, I read an interesting (to me) ,,,article about vallesneria and it's possible effects on ph in tanks where it was allowed to grow unchecked. I can't remember the scientific name for the process by which this particular plant can absorb it's carbon from carbonate content of the water, but in tanks overgrown with this plant and already low ph values,,it was suggested that it could lower the pH even further and thus,,make pH unstable.
It all sounded plausible to me but I'm not all that expierienced with plants in general ,and am wondering if anyone else has thoughts or expieriences with this regard. I mean to me,,, in a small tank ,with already low pH values or KH ,and left to become overgrown with the stuff,, does anyone think this could pose a problem with either biological filter considering that at lower pH values the bacteria develops much more slowly,,or with fishes depending on what one is trying to keep?
Or could it be person ,or persons unknown ,over analyzing the effects of a tank heavily planted with this particular plant?

The most important medication in your fish medicine cabinet is.. Clean water.
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post #17 of 23 Old 03-02-2010, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
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@WisFish Yea I re-direct them and/ or take some out as we're going along here to get the look I want.

@1077 I always had quite a decent amount Vallis in any set up small or larger and I had that with my old tanks (harder water, higher pH) as well as my new set ups here (1dKH from tap and low pH). Even in the old tanks that had pretty much Vallis planting only I hadn't had a pH drop (over time) at least not in a way that it would have been measurable with the normal liquid kits. For the new set ups now they been up & running with my soft water since Nov last year and after the initial set up also here KH & pH are stable. I can't tell you from my own exp wether or not this articles suggestions are right/ wrong. I pers never seen it happen; but it may well be my tanks had missed a piece of the puzzle in the set up that would 'trigger' such thing to happen.

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post #18 of 23 Old 03-02-2010, 11:12 AM
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I've cut the tops of mine before and they were fine.
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post #19 of 23 Old 03-02-2010, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1077 View Post
Not long ago while researching plants that I am contemplating for a planted tank come spring, I read an interesting (to me) ,,,article about vallesneria and it's possible effects on ph in tanks where it was allowed to grow unchecked. I can't remember the scientific name for the process by which this particular plant can absorb it's carbon from carbonate content of the water, but in tanks overgrown with this plant and already low ph values,,it was suggested that it could lower the pH even further and thus,,make pH unstable.
It all sounded plausible to me but I'm not all that expierienced with plants in general ,and am wondering if anyone else has thoughts or expieriences with this regard. I mean to me,,, in a small tank ,with already low pH values or KH ,and left to become overgrown with the stuff,, does anyone think this could pose a problem with either biological filter considering that at lower pH values the bacteria develops much more slowly,,or with fishes depending on what one is trying to keep?
Or could it be person ,or persons unknown ,over analyzing the effects of a tank heavily planted with this particular plant?
I can't recall coming across this directly, but it is logical thinking and I suspect true, though perhaps not at significant levels.

Vallisneria is one of several plants that are very efficient at assimilating carbon from bicarbonates in the water rather than CO2. Some of the others common in aquaria are Egeria, Elodea, Myriophyllum, and several others less common. In general, plants like these come from harder more alkaline waters because those waters contain more bicarbonates that soft acidic waters. It has been my experience that Vallisneria grow very well in basic/alkaline water, but much less well in soft acidic water; I actually use Sagittaria rather than Vallisneria for the same "appearance" in my soft acidic water Amazonian tanks for just this reason. Some of these plants, though not Vallisneria and Myriophyllum, polarize their leaves in order to use the bicarbonate carbon by converting it to CO2 and then assimilating it through the leaf.

To digress a bit momentarily, opposite to the above are the many amphibious plants (bog plants like Echinodorus and Cryptocoryne) along with Ceratopteris, Ludwigia, Nuphar, etc. that cannot use bicarbonates well and rely more on CO2 either from the water (when submersed) or the air (emersed or with floating leaves). And some, namely the aquatic mosses and liverworts, apparently cannot use bicarbonates at all.

It seems logical that if the plant like Vallisneria is assimilating carbon from bicarbonates, then the pH will slowly fall as the buffering effect of the bicarbonates is used up or at least reduced. However, I would wonder just how much this would or could occur.

The other aspect is the "low pH" you mention. If the pH is already low, and here I would assume down around 6 or below, the nitrification bacteria are probably non-functioning anyway. It is my understanding that at a pH below 6.4 nitrosomonas bacteria cannot multiply, and below 6 it ceases to function. The further lowering of the pH would thus not be a concern with respect to the biological filtration, almost non-existent, but with the acidification of the water and the effect of that on the fish and plants. However, in a properly designed aquarium, this should never arise as a problem. With soft acidic water fish, a pH of 5 and zero hardness is fine; if the fish require harder water (livebearers, rift lake cichlids, etc) then the aquarium must be set up to provide harder water.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #20 of 23 Old 03-02-2010, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Did I understand you right Byron? That Vallis grows worst in soft water then hard water? Because my exp is the complete opposite, while they grew nicely before for me with the harder set ups, now here in the new soft water home that are REALLY exploding.

How far do you think over what time frame would it lower the parameters? I'd have to find my notes but this tank was set up early Nov last year and after the initial cycle this tank has been pH 7.6 and KH5 since then (with a tap water of KH1 and pH 6.8 )

~ Life Is Too Short, Break The Rules, Forgive Quickly, Kiss Slowly, Love Truly, Laugh Uncontrollably And Never Regret Anything that Made You Smile.
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