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Suggestions for light / substrate..

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Suggestions for light / substrate..
Old 06-12-2012, 12:09 AM   #11
 
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Sorry I'm now posting in two threads on the topic.. but posting this here sort of stays more on topic for this thread than the other.

I went ahead and ordered some ludwigia stems that do have red to them.. I really love they way they look so I am hoping they'll work in my set up. I did some research and found people who did say they were able to grow them in similar lighting like I have. I guess first I will just see how well they do with my current ferts and go from there. The only problem I currently see in my tank is slow growth, but right now it's mainly java moss and anubias in the tank which are slow growers anyways. Both do have visible new growth though..

Correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying I should start dosing with trace minerals (I'm guessing once I have the new plants in since plants are space right now..). And then if that doesn't seem to help growth / maintain health should I then start checking the GH and looking into something like equilibrium?

Lastly, I will need to see exactly what product the fert for red plants is, but if I remember correctly it is kept right next to the equilibrium. It was a powdered substance too, I believe.. which I think equilibrium is as well. Would this be a better option if it's pretty much equilibrium with maybe some added iron or something? I'm only speculating at this point.. I'll have to get the specifics first I'm sure.

Lastly again (lol), do you know if any of the Aqua-vitro products may suit my needs? I'm not sure if anyone is very familiar with them but my LFS has them 25% off.. they have been for a couple weeks and I'm not sure if that's just because no one wants them?
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:11 AM   #12
 
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Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying I should start dosing with trace minerals (I'm guessing once I have the new plants in since plants are space right now..). And then if that doesn't seem to help growth / maintain health should I then start checking the GH and looking into something like equilibrium?
No. Get the plants, continue the Flourish Comp weekly, and monitor results over a few weeks. It is always best to add as little as necessary rather than over-adding what isn't needed, as that is when other trouble enters.

Quote:
Lastly, I will need to see exactly what product the fert for red plants is, but if I remember correctly it is kept right next to the equilibrium. It was a powdered substance too, I believe.. which I think equilibrium is as well. Would this be a better option if it's pretty much equilibrium with maybe some added iron or something? I'm only speculating at this point.. I'll have to get the specifics first I'm sure.
I'll need to now the name in order to look into this. Equilibrium does have some iron in it too. But one has to be careful dumping nutrients into a tank with fish and plants.

Quote:
Lastly again (lol), do you know if any of the Aqua-vitro products may suit my needs? I'm not sure if anyone is very familiar with them but my LFS has them 25% off.. they have been for a couple weeks and I'm not sure if that's just because no one wants them?
This is a new line of planted tank products brought out by Seachem. It is only available through stores, not online. I have read about it and seen it, but not tried it. First, they are expensive, and they only (so far) come in the standard sized bottles. I buy my fertilizers like Flourish Comprehensive and Equilibrium in the large jugs/tubs which long-term save money. I haven't done the math fully yet, but I may try to in order to see if I can be abut even using Aqua-Vitro compared to the others. This line has a good water conditioner that only dechlorinates, which is perfect for planted tanks as it is not messing with heavy metals, ammonia, etc. Even Seachem realize this; they have brought this product out for use in planted tanks rather than their Prime.

If I could get what I need in Aqua-Vitro at 25% off, I probably would buy a set and try it. There are several products, and one can choose the ones that suit your goals and tap water.

Byron.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:22 PM   #13
 
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Well, since you did mention the water conditioner I think I will have to purchase some as I'm almost out of prime. Since my water probably has very little in it already, maybe that will help. I'm reading it also raises potassium by a bit..
I can use that and dose ferts in the same day then, right? I saw the bottle and the advertising certainly made it sound nice! ;) At my LFS it is only maybe a dollar more than the other products, but then add in 25% off.. why not? I have less than 35 gals between my two tanks so, although the larger package would still save money, it does still take a long time to go through what I do have. The dosing is different on the Premier water conditioner though so I will have to see if it still seems worth it..

I guess for now I'll probably just switch conditioners and keep dosing as usual.. if anything starts to struggle I will be back for more help! As of right now, I made sure the plants can tolerate my pH and soft water, and got stem and floating plants so my lack of a decent plant substrate doesn't really matter.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:27 PM   #14
 
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Foir another red plant, have you considered a red or bronze crypt wendtii in a back corner? The get large, but extremely slowly. (years and years)
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:41 PM   #15
 
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Well, since you did mention the water conditioner I think I will have to purchase some as I'm almost out of prime. Since my water probably has very little in it already, maybe that will help. I'm reading it also raises potassium by a bit.
Yes, I believe they say that.

Quote:
I can use that and dose ferts in the same day then, right? I saw the bottle and the advertising certainly made it sound nice!
Yes, since this conditioner does not mess with metals (being some nutrients that may be in the water).

Quote:
At my LFS it is only maybe a dollar more than the other products, but then add in 25% off.. why not? I have less than 35 gals between my two tanks so, although the larger package would still save money, it does still take a long time to go through what I do have. The dosing is different on the Premier water conditioner though so I will have to see if it still seems worth it.
Yes, the conditioners I use/have used are 1 teaspoon per 10g, so if I see that I conclude that it will be same quantity and it is easier to compare prices.

I have 7 tanks, planted, so this stuff adds up. On just the Flourish Comprehensive for instance, in local stores the 2 litre jug is $50 or more but I get it online for $30. That's a decent savings, even with $7 shipping and of course I add other products in like the conditioner that is saving me $15 to $25 per jug, etc. I bought Flourish Potassium recently, aqnd the 500ml bottle is around $21 in most stores; I can get it online for $10, and in this case I can get it in one local store for this too. It pays to look around and compare.

Quote:
I guess for now I'll probably just switch conditioners and keep dosing as usual.. if anything starts to struggle I will be back for more help! As of right now, I made sure the plants can tolerate my pH and soft water, and got stem and floating plants so my lack of a decent plant substrate doesn't really matter.
Correct.
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:14 PM   #16
 
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Byron, I just wanted to let you know this.. I asked Seachem about the dosage on their Aqua-vitro line, and they are all "super concentrated" like their other products so dosing is relatively the same. They're also starting to distribute 1L and 4L jugs, but said you may need to order through your LFS that carries it. Since they can't be ordered online you would have to order it from the store itself.

I also asked what they suggest as maybe an initial product to use compatible to Flourish Comprehensive.. they of course suggest using the whole line, but here's what they did say:

"As far as ferts go, using the full line is going to yield the best results. With that said, if you wanted to start out with just a few of the products, I would suggest Envy and Propel as your first choices. Envy is will provide abroad range of nutrients while Propel provides a couple different forms of iron. Definitely look into the rest of the line though, the macro nutrients are essential as well and can become alimiting factor in the growth of your plants."
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:48 PM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by redchigh View Post
Foir another red plant, have you considered a red or bronze crypt wendtii in a back corner? The get large, but extremely slowly. (years and years)
I'm sorry I didn't even see this post until just now. I may try it. I also really like the sunset variety, or Florida...? I forgot the name. My LFS carries those more frequently, but they are expensive. I didn't have the best of luck with a crypt wendtii before but if these plants I ordered do not do well I am probably going to try wendtii for some contrast. I thought the plant stayed small so I wasn't all that interested in it.. but just earlier today I realized they do get quite large. Thank you for the suggestion!
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:55 PM   #18
 
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Not trying to post a million things today but I noticed some issues in my tank today. I'm thinking it's a lack of iron, potassium, or both.. but more than likely I'm totally off. I did change (today) to using Premier instead of Prime so if it is potassium that may fix it because it does indeed add potassium. If not, I need some suggestions, please.

My pennywort overall looks good, on a few leaves (like maybe 5% if even) have what appears to be algae.. it's got tiny, darker green spots all over the leaf. I don't know if that's causing the issue, but there are quite a few (maybe 15%?) of the leaves are paler and look like they're melting. Some of them have just part of the leaf weak, other leaves are total mush. Most of the plants look healthy though and there are many new leaves growing.
Second thing I saw is on only one of my Anubias there are a couple very small spots that are yellow with green veins. There are also a couple spots on the anubias that look more of a yellow green than the rest, and some of the baby leaves are lighter/brighter in color.. not sure if that's normal or not.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:55 AM   #19
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennesque View Post
Not trying to post a million things today but I noticed some issues in my tank today. I'm thinking it's a lack of iron, potassium, or both.. but more than likely I'm totally off. I did change (today) to using Premier instead of Prime so if it is potassium that may fix it because it does indeed add potassium. If not, I need some suggestions, please.

My pennywort overall looks good, on a few leaves (like maybe 5% if even) have what appears to be algae.. it's got tiny, darker green spots all over the leaf. I don't know if that's causing the issue, but there are quite a few (maybe 15%?) of the leaves are paler and look like they're melting. Some of them have just part of the leaf weak, other leaves are total mush. Most of the plants look healthy though and there are many new leaves growing.
Second thing I saw is on only one of my Anubias there are a couple very small spots that are yellow with green veins. There are also a couple spots on the anubias that look more of a yellow green than the rest, and some of the baby leaves are lighter/brighter in color.. not sure if that's normal or not.
There is a nutrient issue here, at least that is what I would suggest from your data. Any chance of some photos of these leaf issues?

And can you summarize the nutrients now being used, and the light and tank size, so all pertinent data is together.

On your earlier post about Seachem's response, yes they can be helpful but they are a business and want to sell their products. I certainly do not recommend dosing iron alone, this micro-nutrient is highly overrated. I have gone down this road, both with an iron-clay layer (laterite) under the substrate and using an iron supplement, and neither worked. Balance is the key, and adding more of any single nutrient if the rest (all 17) are not in balance plus the light, is pointless and can actually cause problems. Iron after all is a toxic heavy metal. I looked at the products in the Aqua-Vitro line, and in my view the only benefit is the water conditioner and the hard mineral additive. I have very soft water, near zero GH, and need a calcium/magnesium/potassium supplement beyond what is in Flourish Comprehensive, and while the Equilibrium is supplying this perfectly, the powder vs liquid is annoying so the similar product in the AV line (a liquid) caught my eye. But it is very expensive.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:59 PM   #20
 
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I will get picture of the anubias tonight.. if any more of the pennywort looks melty I will get a picture of that. I guess it's probably best if I get my water hardness tested this weekend. My LFS has the API liquid tests so they should be pretty accurate. If my water is like yours then maybe I will need to see about adding something like Mineralize or Equilibrium.

I wasn't really thinking I would switch to the AV line for ferts, but I was curious so I thought I would ask Seachem what they suggest. I laughed when they said the whole line. Of course they'd say that. But yes, I agree that at least the water conditioner seems like a good idea. I tried it out yesterday and no one died. And the dosing seems to be the same as prime so the price difference isn't too bad.

As of right now I can say I've got a 28gal, I dose once a week with Flourish comprehensive (should I dose twice like in your sticky?). I just in the last maybe 2-3 weeks switched from one 18" t8 to three 13watt CFLs, either way I had 6500k bulbs. Right now, since I removed the Vals I have one of the CFLs off for a couple days until I get my new plants in. This is because I've got some barely off white PFS as the substrate and the tank is very bright with all three lights on and so few plants. Because of my sponge filter, the floating pennywort is always pushed to the front half of my tank which also helps cover the anubias and java moss. So right now there is just light pouring onto bare sand in the back half of the tank; I felt that would make the fish feel stressed so I lessened the lighting. I should also mention the lights are on for 10 hours with
4 or 5 hour break where the tank gets a minimal amount of indirect lighting. I do this so I have more time to see my tank. Also, the cfl in the middle is over the brace in the middle or the tank so it doesn't let out the full amount of light. I thought this would still be OK since switching to the cfls more than doubles my light anyways.

Like I said, I will take some pics tonight. There were a couple months I did neglect to dose and I've just been keeping up for the last two months. I'm not sure if the yellow parts with green veins is something that happened because of the previous lack of consistent ferts. The new leaves aren't yellow, they're just a few shades lighter than the mature leaves.

Would the pennywort melt because of the increased light? I know that crypts can, but I didn't think any of my plants would.
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