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Stagnant plants: Proper balance?

This is a discussion on Stagnant plants: Proper balance? within the Beginner Planted Aquarium forums, part of the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium category; --> Ok, so my internet access is very limited. I'm doing all this from my smart phone. It's taking all I got not to smash ...

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Stagnant plants: Proper balance?
Old 01-04-2012, 11:05 PM   #11
 
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Ok, so my internet access is very limited. I'm doing all this from my smart phone. It's taking all I got not to smash this stupid phone to dust as its cumbersome to surf the net. So when I get access to a computer I'll find out the GH. As far as the powder, I'm afraid the PH will get out of control. I can tell by your word selection, I don't need it. I started using it because my PH was way too high. It worked well to return it to normal. I'm leaving some tap water out tonight and will report the PH level tomorrow.

When I get a little spending money, I'll change the light to a 6500K. I'll report when that happens.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:41 PM   #12
 
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Ok Bryon got it.

Untreated water
PH: 7.4 to 7.6
GH: 25 to 40 PPM (Moderatly soft)
Grains per gallon: 1.5 to 2.5

I hope that's what you were looking for.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:33 PM   #13
 
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Ok Bryon got it.

Untreated water
PH: 7.4 to 7.6
GH: 25 to 40 PPM (Moderatly soft)
Grains per gallon: 1.5 to 2.5

I hope that's what you were looking for.
Thanks. On the hardness, that is very soft, almost as soft as what comes out of my tap. What this means is that the pH of the tank water will lower on its own as the biological processes become established. The pH will be below 7 before very long. There is no need to be using the pH powder, though it will be less troublesome with a low hardness than if the hardness were significant. You can read up on the relationship here:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...quarium-73276/

I didn't ask about the fish species, but I think I have answered that by checking your Aquarium profiles. Except for the guppy, those fish will be fine with the softness and pH lowering. The guppy will not; they (like all livebearers) require medium hard water with a pH above 7. The easiest way to achieve this is with some calcareous substrate. Crushed coral, dolomite, aragonite all work. CarribSea make a crushed coral sand that has aragonite in it and it works well, I have some. Just mix this in with the substrate in the guppy tank and the GH and corresponding pH will be fine. Don't use too much, it takes very little, maybe a cup. Test the pH over several days. With livebearers it can be high, so don't worry if it goes up to 8.

I'm not going to expand on this next point now, but only mention that the selection of fish and numbers you have in the Aquariums profiles is very problematic. I suggest you have a read of the profile of each species (all are included in our profiles); second tab from the left in the blue bar across the top of the page takes you there.

Byron.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:42 PM   #14
 
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Thanks Bryon.

I will look into getting the PH in my guppy tank up some.
About my big tank. I took your advice and read up on some of the species I have. I discovered; I'm breaking all the rules! I don't have the "preferred" amount for any species, some probably shouldn't be together. So what am I missing here? I love my fish tank and can stare at it like its a tv, the fish have very little aggression toward each other. Their colors seem appropriate for the species. And, I've had most of these fish for over a year now. So i figured they would be dead by now if something was too extreme.

I'm pretty sure I'm overstocked by looking at others profiles who have a 20 gallon. Could this be one of the factors with my plant problem?
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:58 AM   #15
 
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Thanks Bryon.

I will look into getting the PH in my guppy tank up some.
About my big tank. I took your advice and read up on some of the species I have. I discovered; I'm breaking all the rules! I don't have the "preferred" amount for any species, some probably shouldn't be together. So what am I missing here? I love my fish tank and can stare at it like its a tv, the fish have very little aggression toward each other. Their colors seem appropriate for the species. And, I've had most of these fish for over a year now. So i figured they would be dead by now if something was too extreme.

I'm pretty sure I'm overstocked by looking at others profiles who have a 20 gallon. Could this be one of the factors with my plant problem?
I'll just comment on the matter of shoaling fish, that being the fact that such fish must be in groups.

Fish are programmed by nature to suit their environment. Each species has evolved--and there is very clear evidence that many of them are still evolving into new species in Amazonia--according to that environment. The fact that shoaling fish live in groups of hundreds is not accidental. The fish have a need for this. It is believed that security is foremost; the fish simply feel "safe" in large groups. Many species have distinct social interaction within a group. Some have very marked aggressive behaviours, a pecking order (angelfish and discus demonstrate this, many others do too). Until very recently there was little scientific evidence on this, but a couple of studies (which I have linked previously on this forum) have proven than when maintained in groups less than five, shoaling fish experience considerable stress. Sometimes this exhibits itself as aggression. Stress cause a weakening of the immune system, allowing the fish to develop health problems it would not otherwise have. Almost always it is a shorter lifespan, simply because the fish is under such fear and stress that it literally burns out.

I have maintained fish for more than 20 years. I can see evidence of the need for shoaling fish to be in groups every time I sit in front of the tanks. Even among the most peaceful tetra, the size of the group has a very marked influence on their behaviours. And this translates into health. Denying these fish what nature intends for them is not responsible fishkeeping. While this denies the aquarist the opportunity to observe some incredible natural behaviours, the fish are always the real losers.

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Old 01-07-2012, 12:15 PM   #16
 
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Alright, thanks for a swift kick in the chops. I haven't been called irresponsible in quite some time. Bravo.
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:49 PM   #17
 
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Alright, thanks for a swift kick in the chops. I haven't been called irresponsible in quite some time. Bravo.
I spend hours a day on this forum, and this particular subject is a common one. I keep repeating much the same advice, and sometimes I get a response back that I know nothing of what I'm writing, this beginning aquarist has had these fish for "x" months, they are perfectly happy, blah, blah. I sometimes try to avoid all that by being a bit more direct. I am trying to be understood, and sometimes that requires being direct.

Byron.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:34 PM   #18
 
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I can understand that, trust me. Please understand I'm not arguing with you. You really know your stuff, I never once disputed that, and I'm not close minded and am willing to learn. So I want to take action:

What I'm thinking is taking some of the fish to the pet store and cleaning up my stock, to the way it should be. The question is; what groups of fish to keep?
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:51 PM   #19
 
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I can understand that, trust me. Please understand I'm not arguing with you. You really know your stuff, I never once disputed that, and I'm not close minded and am willing to learn. So I want to take action:

What I'm thinking is taking some of the fish to the pet store and cleaning up my stock, to the way it should be. The question is; what groups of fish to keep?
I'm still learning too.

I don't like telling others what fish to have, as it is your aquarium. I do interject when I see trouble looming, or inappropriate conditions. I will offer some guidelines on "community" tanks which may help.

First, decide what sort of aquarium you want. A tank of many smallish fish, interacting among plants; a tank with a few (maybe even just a pair) of larger fish (relative to the tank size obviously); perhaps a biotope, or geographic.

Successful community tanks occur when the fish are all compatible. And this goes beyond mere behaviours. The flow from the filter is important; some fish need current, some quite the opposite. Water parameters (hardness, pH and temperature) matter, all fish must share similar. Light is important esp to forest fish that appreciate dimly-lit tanks (floating plants help here). Fish numbers have to be considered; some need groups, others in pairs and a few alone. Then the behaviours; nippy fish will cause havoc with sedate, etc.

Edit: Just took another look at your fish in the 20g. There are some that must go: Red Tail Shark, Clown Pleco, Angelfish, Congo Tetra, gold barb. These get much too large for a 20g, even aside from needing a group for the latter three. The Shark can become a terror as it matures in a small space. Molly must have medium hard to hard water, the others are best in soft but some will manage in slightly basic. Beyond this, others will have to go in order to provide adequate numbers of whatès left.

Last edited by Byron; 01-07-2012 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:02 PM   #20
 
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Cool, I was thinking many of those same things. Well, where to start. Um, I would like to keep my angel if possible, I believe the Congo tetra I have is compatible with the angel. I know I can keep the clown pleco, no problem there. Now angels like to be in groups, but I've only a 20 gallon. would my group of 6 lemon tetras be alright? Should I have more than 6? my plants I'm going to keep. Let's just deal with the stocking right now. I actually wouldn't mind some grouping suggestions from you Bryon :)

Ok, just read your edit. Dammit! Now I want a bigger tank, lol! Alright so I will bag those mentioned so far and take them to the fish store.

Last edited by Tetra Guy; 01-07-2012 at 02:07 PM..
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