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Quick question about sand & plants

5K views 30 replies 8 participants last post by  wendex 
#1 ·
This may be a really stupid question, but how do you stir the sand if you have plants in the tank. Specifically if you are planning to have a "lawn" area covered in some type of grass-like plant? That is what I was planning on doing with my new 29 gal, and I just never thought of it. Do the roots keep anarobic pockets from forming?? Thanks.
 
#3 ·
Yeah, I was thinking maybe some snails. But, if my plan works out as I hope and I get a dense carpet over the bottom of the tank, then the snails wouldn't be able to get out.:-?

Hmm...hope somebody knows. (Not that the sand was ultra expensive at $4, but I really think that it would look great.)
 
#4 ·
I tossed around the idea of using Malaysian Trumpet snails for awhile but ended up deciding against it. My LFS has a 500G display tank and it has been overrun with those little guys. They are suppose to be nocturnal but no matter what time of the day I stop by the LFS you can see thousands of them zooming all over the tank.

I actually brought a couple home with me from the LFS to see if my loaches would be able to keep the populations in check if I did introduce them into my tank. The loaches tried but the MTS have an operculum that my loaches couldn't get past so I removed them from my tank.
That was enough for me to change my mind about using them.

I'm also going for the "carpet" effect so I have no idea how I'll get the sand stirred under those areas....
 
#5 ·
Generally, it's not advisable to use sand aas a substrate when planting your tank... Coarse sand(2mm) is the lowest I would go when planting a tank, otherwise with such fine substrate, your plants won't root properly.
I just had a thought. You could use gravel on the very bottom of your tank, then you could cover the gravel with a thin(5mm) layer of sand, so it gives it the nice finish :)

Hope that helps
 
#10 ·
I just had a thought. You could use gravel on the very bottom of your tank, then you could cover the gravel with a thin(5mm) layer of sand, so it gives it the nice finish :)
Hope that helps
Wouldn't the sand slip through the gravel?

Thanks for the plant suggestion :-D. I was wondering exactly what plant I should use.
 
#6 ·
I'm using sand and haven't experienced any problems with my plants rooting. They are actually doing very well. I'm using black sand so it's not super fine but it's still sand. Which is why I have the question about stirring those areas of sand. I don't want to disturb the roots but I don't want anaerobic pockets either...
 
#7 ·
Yes I see your problem... Again my suggestion above would help with the whole anaerobic pockets situation, I can't think of anything else that would help you out since you want to create the carpet effect using a grassy type of plant (may I suggest Elocharis Acicularis(Dwarf Hairgrass) worked wonders on my tank).

Hope it works out for you two
 
#20 ·
I found that plant at the place where I buy from :-D! They say that it needs bright light. I will have a little over 2 watts per gallon, will this work? Thanks.
 
#11 ·
The sand shouldn't slip through provided the gravel was around 2-3mm thick, the sand will just sit on top of the gravel and give it that awesome look sand gives to any tank that has it
 
#12 ·
I use a very fine sand in my large, planted tank. It's not a problem at all. The reason one tries to prevent anaerobic pockets is if a fish stirs it up it can be very bad for them. However, if you can't stir it up, and the snails can't stir it up, I don't see how your fish would. I don't worry about stirring up the substrate that's secured by roots and it shouldn't be a problem at all.
 
#14 ·
Maeve- That's exactly the answer I wanted to hear. I'll continue to stir the big open areas of my sand and leave the sand that's been planted alone. I didn't relish the idea of having to poke around under my plants with a skewer stick!

PS. I haven't seen you online for awhile...I thought you had headed off to Peru on your fish collecting trip...??
 
#15 ·
Anaerobic pockets are areas of compacted sand where there is little to no water flow. If there is no water flow, no oxygen is being brought to the area. So, instead of normal, healthy bacteria, anaerobic bacteria begin to grow. These guys live and multiply without oxygen. The problem is that their metabolic processes result in gasses that are toxic to your fish. These gasses can get trapped in the anaerobic pocket, and when it's disrupted...you get the idea.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Hahahha awesome. I love how I learned about this yesterday in my biology class and then I go home and read about it on the fish forum.... Lol maybe I should start going to my bio class more often.

And just to add my opinion to this, I have a planted tank with sand and one with gravel. I find the gravel is easier... But I like how the sand looks so I don't really care. I put some... eco layer starter thing by API in there so theres a small layer of that and then the sand. The clay eco stuff tends to come up through the sand though, lol it makes me mad so I just push it back down there. I honestly have no complaints with plants and sand, I love it.

Lol apparently my eco layer coming up is the Brazil nut effect, thanks for the link Okie it was a good read.
 
#16 ·
Ok, great! I'll stir the areas that are open and leave the rest alone. Thank you everyone :-D.
 
#17 ·
hi
just to add my two pennies...............
i have gravel at the back of the tank,then a plastic devider,then
the sand in the open area at the front.
the plants at the back root very well and i disturb the gravel a little
with a stick where i am unable to get with the gravel vac,
then of corse the front is devoid of plants,so it;s plain sailing
when disturbing the sand and doing a gravel vac.
 
#21 · (Edited)
What type of "watts per gallon" are we speaking? Compact florescent? T5? What is the spectrum? It should work out ok, it's not too demanding a plant. However, being such a fine plant, it can collect a lot of mulm, so it will require a bit of maintenance. Pygmy chain sword is another grassy plant I've had a lot of luck with.
The sand shouldn't slip through provided the gravel was around 2-3mm thick, the sand will just sit on top of the gravel and give it that awesome look sand gives to any tank that has it
Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way, the largest item will always end up on top: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_nut_effect
PS. I haven't seen you online for awhile...I thought you had headed off to Peru on your fish collecting trip...??
I wish! Gotta wait until the dry season in Peru to catch the good fish. However, a trip to Australia is in the works for the meantime :)
 
#22 ·
Thanks for that link on the "brazil nut effect". I always wondered why I had to dig around in the bottom of a bin for nuts at the store for the almonds. My parrot insists on almonds for treats!

Australia? Nice! Now, who will take care of everthing while you're gone now that you've got the mini-zoo?? :-D
 
#24 ·
The light is a standard shop light T12 fixture that I got from Home Depot. It has 2 30 watt 50/50 bulbs in it. My tank is a standard 29 gallon. I know this isn't really the best light fixture, but it was the only one I could afford. I figured I would just get easy, undemanding plants and everything should work out fine. I also plan on doing DIY co2, but I will be experimenting with it before I put in any fish as this will be my first time.

Little-Fizz, how is the gravel easier?

Okiemavis: Wow, Australia and then Peru :shock:. LUCKY!! :lol:
 
#26 ·
Well gravel itself is easier to clean and maintain. But with the sand I found it was harder getting plants with big roots sticking out of them in the sand. But once I got them in right they stayed so no problems there. I just miss being able to shove my vacuum right into the gravel is all. :lol:
 
#27 ·
Thanks everyone. :-D The reason that I wanted to do sand is that I want to have some kuhlii loaches in there (they would appreciate the sand right), and it's really cheap! Also I like the look of it.

Okiemavis, I'll take your word on the anarobic pocket thing as you are obviously an expert at this.

I'll look for some bulbs with a higher K-rating, I couldn't seem to find some as when I looked (haven't actually bought the bulbs yet, so no harm done) I couldn't seem to find anything between 5,000 and 10,000K.

Oh, I have heard people talk about "guppy grass." Is this an easy plant to grow, and what is its actual name?

I really appreciate it everyone, as I'm still a newbie at this whole plant thing.:)
 
#28 ·
I'm glad you asked about guppy grass. I looked up the images online and realize it's what I've got floating in my tank. At the time of purchase my guy at the LFS didn't know what it was called. It's great as it does well floating or planted. I also have a fine sand substrate. Both ways it grows quickly and it's a lush looking plant.
 
#29 ·
Good call, the kuhlis will definitely appreciate the sand! When I first moved my cories over to sand, I was impressed with all the new, wonderful behaviors they suddenly displayed. Those kind of bottom dwellers are definitely happier on sand.

"Guppy grass" is also called najas grass (Najas quadalupensis) it's a pretty, hard to kill floating plant.

Batman's right about the bulbs. 50/50 is gonna grow you more algae than plants :p
 
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