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Plants are struggling a bit

2K views 15 replies 4 participants last post by  equatics 
#1 ·
So I saw Nemo The Clownfish's thread about his sword and it got me thinking about mine. I originally thought mine were doing ok until I saw the diagram in that thread. Now I'm not so sure and think they might need a little help of some sort. This tanks been set up for about a year. Tank parameters are...

40g Breeder
ZooMed Ultra Sun bulb about a year old.
Ammonia= 0
Nitrate= 0
Nitrite= 0
GH= 143.2
kh= 5
pH- 7.4ish this one's hard to read

I use Seachem root tabs around the base replacing them every month or so and does 1 teaspoon flourish comprehensive after every weekly water change.

I'm going to try and attach pictures but am not sure if the site will let me. Plants are Regular sword, Ruffle sword, compact sword, italian val, dwarf sag and a could anubias in there.
 
#3 ·

Compact sword has some yellowing leaves that get pinholes.


I bought a lot of dwarf sag all at once. Some have taken root and have some new growth (which is VERY slow) and others have nothing. All still have some old leaves and I thought they were adjusting to the tank change but they've been in mine for about 3 months now.


This little guy has been a real fighter. One of the originals I had and thought it completely died off but I guess not. Keeps trying to grow big but just can't. Will get maybe one medium size leaf but the rest stay tiny like that.


This is the only sword where the ends of leafs rotted on them. I added a couple extra root tabs around it and the new ones seem fine. Is that all it needed?


The italian val does great in my tank.

Any help would be appreciated. I just want to get all my plants nice and full and healthy looking. I'd love to add more plants to the tank but not if they're just gonna get rotting away slowly.

Good managed to get them on here I don't know what the problem was before.
 
#4 ·
I have seen everything you posted (photos) on my plants too.

The sword in the first photo of post #2 is Echinodorus major, no doubt of that. As I mentioned in the other thread, mine are not doing particularly well now, after over a year of phenomenal growth. Nothing much has changed in my case with respect to light or nutrients [but see following]. Kasselmann says that difficulties with cultivation can usually be resolved through intensive fertilization of the substrate as well as more powerful lighting. Thinking back, when I had this plant growing 30 or more leaves that reached 18-20 inches in length, and it even sent out two inflorescences that flowered and produced several adventitious plants [something quite rare in submersed cultivation], the only change was the substrate fertilizer. I was then using the Plant-Gro sticks by Nutrafin; these are no longer available anywhere, online included. My other swords grew faster with these too, so substrate nutrients may be significant. I have the adventitious plants in my Flourite-substrate tank, but they are not doing that well--another indication of how "useless" such substrates are. I intend to tear this tank down shortly and replace the Flourite with sand; I will put 2 or 3 Flourish Tabs next to these plants then, and see if that makes a difference.

As for the other plants, I think you need more liquid fertilization. I find twice weekly doses of Flourish Comprehensive (the full dose each time) essential or my chain swords look like those in the photos. Since I moved back up to twice weekly, they have significantly improved. I did experiment with this, doing twice weekly for several months, then once weekly for about 6 or 7 months, now back to twice. It has made a difference.

Light might be marginal, with one T8 tube [assuming this is T8] but the ZooMed UltraSun is a decent tube and I was managing with one Life-Glo T8 over my 33g. Replace the tube every 12 months or so; I let mine go to 18 months I think it was, and the plants definitely weakened. They are now coming back with the new tube after a few weeks.

Byron.
 
#5 ·
Thanks Byron I will try more root tabs and dosing the Flourish twice a week. I had a feeling that there need to be more nutrients in the substrate because when I put new tabs in the plants do great for a little while but then the leaves start to look rough. I also never put the tabs in the same spot twice (or at least try not too) so there's more nutrients surrounding the plant. I've also been weary of dosing Flourish twice a week even though I've read it before because I don't want to have a lot of algae spring up but will give it a shot.

Another question, since I have a sand substrate could that be preventing nutrients to getting to the roots? Maybe compacting too much around them? I have MTS which are suppose to aerate the sand but is this a possibility? I've had swords in gravel before and don't remember them being this problematic.
 
#6 ·
Another question, since I have a sand substrate could that be preventing nutrients to getting to the roots? Maybe compacting too much around them? I have MTS which are suppose to aerate the sand but is this a possibility? I've had swords in gravel before and don't remember them being this problematic.
No, sand should not be a factor. Afer 15+ years of gravel, I now have play sand in 5 of my 7 tanks and for 2+ years, and the plant growth has not diminished. I don't touch the substrate as far as poking or stirring, and I have Malaysian Livebearing Snails too.
 
#10 ·
I wait 24 hours, on the advice of Seachem. Some say this is not necessary, but rather than risk wasting the fertilizer and perhaps weakening the plant, I don't mind waiting the day.
 
#11 ·
Just thought I'd update you on where I'm at with my Sword and tank. My Sword had split off a baby plant from the side of the middle and obviously the new leaves were progressively more from the new baby. The old leaves have hung in there but maybe it's time to split the baby off.

My plant looks like yours, with a tip of a leaf left with nothing but connective tissue remaining, like I see in your picture. This, I think, is a sign of a nutrient deficiency. I also have a plant or two showing pinholes, which tells me that I definitely have a Potassium deficiency.

Maybe I nieed to dose more Flourish Comprehensive, I certainly need to dose Potassium. Of the other NPKs, I rule them out (Nitrogen, Phosphorous) because they're available in the environment. I am also using Seachem Root Tabs (one under the Sword last week). So if I dose more Flourish Comp. and add Potassium, I should be alright - we'll see if the other two macros show any deficiencies - I only have seven little fish in my 10g. The tank was started on 4-18-12.
 
#12 ·
Byron,

The pic of an E. major came up in the listing in the opening page here, and I looked at it. I think the leaves are narrower and it looks taller than my plant. So, I think you may be perfectly right in your initial estimation of the species of my sword - E. osiris. Hard to tell. Just wanted to let you know about that.

Steven
 
#13 ·
My plant looks like yours, with a tip of a leaf left with nothing but connective tissue remaining, like I see in your picture. This, I think, is a sign of a nutrient deficiency. I also have a plant or two showing pinholes, which tells me that I definitely have a Potassium deficiency.
Not necessarily. I had this same condition in one tank, and I increased potassium [I have been advised by those who supposewdly know that potassium in excess should not be harmful, thus I gave it a try] but it did not help and seemed to make things worse, though that may just have been co-incidence since I do not yet know the exact cause behind this. I do know that increasing Flourish Comprehensive to 3 times a week from 2 did help a bit; this tells me some nutrient is insufficient, but pinning it down is not easy.

Maybe I nieed to dose more Flourish Comprehensive, I certainly need to dose Potassium. Of the other NPKs, I rule them out (Nitrogen, Phosphorous) because they're available in the environment. I am also using Seachem Root Tabs (one under the Sword last week). So if I dose more Flourish Comp. and add Potassium, I should be alright - we'll see if the other two macros show any deficiencies - I only have seven little fish in my 10g. The tank was started on 4-18-12.
As noted above, not necessarily. I would add another dose of Flourish Comp first [how many times a week now?] and continue this for 3-4 weeks and observe any changes.

One planted tank person suggested to me that nitrogen was the issue, and I should be dosing nitrates. This I am not likely to do, for the sake of my fish. I would increase the fish load to get more nitrogen [ammonium] but not start dosing nitrates beyond what little is in the comprehensive and tabs.

Byron.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the added info and help. I think I'll start by dosing flourish twice a week for now since it's the easiest fix at the moment. If that doesn't help I'll look into what might be the exact deficiency.

My tank currently has 10 Emperor tetras, 4 black widow tetras, 2 keyhole cichlids, and countless MTS. I had angels and cories but believe they were just out competed by the tetras for food. They're very greedy fish and swim to the top or the substrate and scoop up any food before the other fish manage too. No matter how I fed them sinking or spot feeding the cories and angels just weren't fast enough which I think led to their eventual death. You said adding fish for nitrates might help but am I close to full capacity and if not what fish do you think might stand a chance?
 
#15 ·
Thanks for the added info and help. I think I'll start by dosing flourish twice a week for now since it's the easiest fix at the moment. If that doesn't help I'll look into what might be the exact deficiency.

My tank currently has 10 Emperor tetras, 4 black widow tetras, 2 keyhole cichlids, and countless MTS. I had angels and cories but believe they were just out competed by the tetras for food. They're very greedy fish and swim to the top or the substrate and scoop up any food before the other fish manage too. No matter how I fed them sinking or spot feeding the cories and angels just weren't fast enough which I think led to their eventual death. You said adding fish for nitrates might help but am I close to full capacity and if not what fish do you think might stand a chance?
I was speaking in general terms; if nitrogen is insufficient, adding fish to increase it (via ammonium) is the only practical solution. But other factors play into this.

Angelfish are not good tankmates for the two tetra mentioned, so that is not surprising. As for corys, feeding sinking foods after total darkness works as they are nocturnal.

Byron.
 
#16 ·
Byron,

I hear what your saying, but I was able to definitely diagnose a Potassium deficiency in other plants right now, and that means that the whole tank is insufficient in Potassium, if you will. I'll start at half-dose and see what happens. I am still glad to get your advice.

Steven
 
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