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plants maintain but don't grow?

This is a discussion on plants maintain but don't grow? within the Beginner Planted Aquarium forums, part of the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium category; --> I agree with lorax84....

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plants maintain but don't grow?
Old 04-10-2012, 10:39 AM   #11
 
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I agree with lorax84.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:02 AM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikaila31 View Post
I would actually say fertilizers are low. Nitrate at least is. You should keep that 10-20ppm for your tank IMO. You do have a number of slow growing plants though as pointed out.
I agree with this.
I dose 1/4 tsp of KN03 once a week
1/8 tsp KH2PO4 once a week
1/8 tsp CSM+ B trace once a week
It is low tech NON CO2 29 gal tank.
Two 24 inch 17 watt T8 bulbs.
If you decide to cut back on Excel (vals don't like it) ,I would cut back on number of hours the light's are on as well, if over eight hours now.(I see you have reduced the lighting).
Would suggest that the Flourish Dark portion of your substrate is largely a clay product, that will hold nutrient's and get better as it ages and more nutrient's become available such as they do, the longer a tank is set up.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:21 AM   #13
 
Some people may argue with this But I notice you have a 6500 k and a 5000 k thats alot of yellow a Little bit of blue like a 10000 k and a 6500 k would be best in my opinion as for plants blue helps to grow fast with tick leaves/branches. and there is also the fact that for a plant to grow it needs light nutrients and co2 , it also gets nutrients from the leaves and from the roots so a few root tabs like you just added wouldent hurt. If you are using a HOB filter I suggest a simple DYI yeast , a simple 2 litter bottle of coke and another of 500-750 ml for the bubble count and a unused cigarette filter or just peice of cotton swab in the tube as a diffuser , place it under the outflow of the HOB and bubbles should come down in the aquarium to a certain point with the flow feeding your aquarium co2 works great with me!
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Old 04-10-2012, 02:07 PM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxillius View Post
Some people may argue with this But I notice you have a 6500 k and a 5000 k thats alot of yellow a Little bit of blue like a 10000 k and a 6500 k would be best in my opinion as for plants blue helps to grow fast with tick leaves/branches. and there is also the fact that for a plant to grow it needs light nutrients and co2 , it also gets nutrients from the leaves and from the roots so a few root tabs like you just added wouldent hurt. If you are using a HOB filter I suggest a simple DYI yeast , a simple 2 litter bottle of coke and another of 500-750 ml for the bubble count and a unused cigarette filter or just peice of cotton swab in the tube as a diffuser , place it under the outflow of the HOB and bubbles should come down in the aquarium to a certain point with the flow feeding your aquarium co2 works great with me!
I would agree with most this as well. Most of my tanks have one 6500K and one 10000k bulb. I really don't think you need CO2 in this tank, although you could do it if you wanted. I've grown pretty much every plant in OPs tank (including dwarf baby tears) with out CO2 and only dosing comp once a week.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:25 PM   #15
 
Ok, let me get this straight. I should change my 5000K to a 10000K light and only dose the recommended flourish comp once a week. How about the flourish iron? Is that a no, I was thinking that lack of iron is why some of the leaves turned yellow, but I guess it's just from to much light. I'm going to stay away from the diy co2, in a year or so I plan on saving up for a real system when I get my 40 gallon breeder set up for high tech. This tank is kinda like just a starter tank to get my knowledge of plants.

What I'm trying to get is a tank that is full of plants. Trying to grow them out vs. just going out and buying a whole bunch.

One last thing here. Would a spray bar be better for my canister, right now I just have a swiveled knob at the end? Plus I have my intake right below my outflow hoping that would give me the best current flow. Is that right? And should I have my canister outflow maxed out or restrict it for less flow. It's a eheim 2232 rated for 35 gal tank and gal/h is 106?
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:28 PM   #16
 
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I would dose more KNO3. Plants actually do best with nitrates around 20 from what I hear. (since you dose excel a lot.)

I bet you don't need the iron as well. Comprehensive has quite a bit. Have you looked into root tabs for the rooted plants?
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:35 PM   #17
 
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I would change to the 10,000k to get more blue light in your tank , yes. As far as dosing individual trace elements, I am just not a fan of it. Unless you have a really high light (4-5 wpg) and high CO2 (30ppm) you really don't need it, and it is very easy mess things up by overdosing. Here is a pick of my tank, all was grown without CO2, dosing comp once a week.



As for the spraybar question, I think it is a personal preference. I prefer a spray bar but I don't really think one grows plants better than the other.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:27 PM   #18
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arscott82 View Post
Ok, let me get this straight. I should change my 5000K to a 10000K light and only dose the recommended flourish comp once a week. How about the flourish iron? Is that a no, I was thinking that lack of iron is why some of the leaves turned yellow, but I guess it's just from to much light. I'm going to stay away from the diy co2, in a year or so I plan on saving up for a real system when I get my 40 gallon breeder set up for high tech. This tank is kinda like just a starter tank to get my knowledge of plants.

What I'm trying to get is a tank that is full of plants. Trying to grow them out vs. just going out and buying a whole bunch.

One last thing here. Would a spray bar be better for my canister, right now I just have a swiveled knob at the end? Plus I have my intake right below my outflow hoping that would give me the best current flow. Is that right? And should I have my canister outflow maxed out or restrict it for less flow. It's a eheim 2232 rated for 35 gal tank and gal/h is 106?
I am going to make some comments that some may disagree with, but that's fine.

Light. I would not be quick to change things. In scientific studies, plants grew best (most growth = highest photosynthesis) with light between 6000K and 7000K. Most sources suggest anything between 5000K and 7000K will work fine. The difference is really your (the aquarist's) perception of the colour hue in the tank. The lower the Kelvin number the warmer (more red, less blue) the colour hue, and the higher the K the cooler (more blue, less red). If you want to try different tubes, fine; as long as you have one of two tubes around 6000K-7000K the other can be whatever you like. I happen to prefer a cooler second tube, but from the plants perspective it does not seem to matter much. I have grown plants with that combo (one 6700K and one 10000K or 11000K) and the same plants with one 6700K and one 6500K, equally well. In the end, if everything required by the plants is present, they will grow with almost any light provided it is sufficient intensity to drive photosynthesis in balance with the nutrients.

Nutrients. I do not recommend dosing with nitrates. I accept this is possibly necessary in high-tech systems where it is the safest way to increase ammonium to balance everything else. But in natural or low tech systems I am not aware of any value whatsoever. And it is detrimental to the fish. And my first concern is healthy fish, the plants are secondary. There are too many of us with thriving planted tanks having nitrates at zero or up to 5ppm to suggest otherwise.

You mentioned iron. This can be dangerous too. Iron is a micro-nutrient, and the thinking that used to be more prevalent than at present, that iron is needed more, is no longer accepted. It is a balance of 17 nutrients that plants need.

Another recommendation in that previously linked article that I totally disagree with, is no water changes. I know Tom Barr says this, and I know why because he and I exchanged several comments about this; I simply disagree. The fish are first, or should be, if it is a fish tank with plants.

On the filter issue, here again I say go with what the fish need. You have quiet water fish, so the current from the filter should be less rather than more. And in this situation I would use the spray bar, aimed along the end glass at one end so it is directed down to the substrate, and the filter intake at the opposite end of the tank. This allows for a gentle flow throughout the tank. The force of the current can impact plants if it is too strong, but the fish would be impacted first.

Byron.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:36 PM   #19
 
Lora that is the way I want my tank to end up! Well not looking like that exactly but how the tank is filled with plants. And are those dwarf baby tears? Your leaves on that look bigger than mine and yours is doing great. I'm going to look into the spray bar, I think I'll like it better the way byron mentioned. As far as my dosing, I'm going to try a couple months out with just comp once a week the day after my w/c. If by then I don't like my results I guess I'll just have to try other ways. But from what I've been getting out of this is that I want to stick with natural or low tech. So no excel or dry furts. For the lighting, I might try a different bulb and see which look I like the best. Once again I want to say thanks for everyone who is helping me out here.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:04 PM   #20
 
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The only thing you may need that I did not is root tabs. Any type of grasses are usually heavy root feeders, my substrate was eco-complete so I did not use root tabs. When I broke the above tank down a couple of weeks ago there was enough plants to scape two 20gallons and a 55 gallon. And yes those are baby tears down front, when I got them they were much more compact than that.
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