one step closer to nature - Page 3 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #21 of 29 Old 02-17-2012, 12:29 PM
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Here's one of those times that written communication is confusing me. I don't know how you mean it, so I'll just ask.

Does the winky face mean you're pulling my leg, not being serious about the proceeding statement? I'm confused.

I feel like the person at the party that doesn't get the joke, so then you explain it to them, and it takes all the humor out of it. And they still don't get it. lol Sorry for my density!

"My dither fish need dither fish!"
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post #22 of 29 Old 02-17-2012, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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In that particular case it was meant more as 'i think you might not be correct, but no hard feelings!'

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post #23 of 29 Old 02-17-2012, 03:04 PM
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Ah, see! Glad I asked.
Well, we'll just disagree. I don't think you could fit enough plants in a 20L to sustain "1 female betta, 1 bolivain ram , 4 glass cats , 4 panda corys ,6 peppered corys ,1 small albino bristlenose pleco , 1 lonely neon awaiting a new home/family". According to AqAdvisor, that's 114% stocking. But I'm not an expert in filterless tanks, so its cool.

But keep us updated!

"My dither fish need dither fish!"
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post #24 of 29 Old 02-17-2012, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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At present the ac20 only has the mech sponge in it, and its turned all the way down, though I do squeeze the sponge out every couple weeks, the trade off is I also vac the gravel in the very front of the tank so the gravel doesnt look scummy from the side. But so far, as it is, my params are great (need a new nitrate test) and the plants havent even begun to fill out. im hopeful they will, and quick too, the original mama water sprites roots almost touch the gravel!

Im considering moving the peppered cories into my 55g, and moving the swarm of albinos in my 55g to my 110g to knock the load down a little bit, but the severums need to settle down first before I even think about that.

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Last edited by beetlebz; 02-17-2012 at 04:31 PM.
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post #25 of 29 Old 02-17-2012, 04:53 PM
people tend to vastly underestimate the capabilities of plants. I've kept 24 small fish in a 15 without any filter and they were happy for over half a year. Filterless is not hard to do either. Its just hard to convince people it can be done and is reliable.

According to Aqadvisor my 20 was 300% stocked for a few weeks. I unplug the filter on that tank every night and the fish still thrived. It was only if I left if off for about a day the stagnant tank would start showing O2 issues.

.... I'm probably drunk.

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post #26 of 29 Old 02-17-2012, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinaMinaMina View Post
Non-filtered does not necessarily equate with stagnate. The are many fish that come from still pools/ponds in the wild, and very plant heavy/lightly stocked tanks can work beautifully once the balance is struck. Believe me, I' a big 'ol animal rights activist and I think this is healthy when done right.

It just difficult to do, is all.
If you have a tank with motionless water, water that does not move, than it is stagnant, that is the definition of the word stagnant.

In the wild you have wind, rain and other factors which at least moves the water somewhat and helps to "roll" the surface.

Filterless tanks are possible and plants can do amazing things at keeping the water clean, but you need some movement to keep the plants thriving as well, whether that be a filter or small powerhead or whatever. the water needs to move to circulate nutrients to the plants.

Also how can we be sure that fish are "happy" in certain conditions or are they just surviving? just food for thought.
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post #27 of 29 Old 02-17-2012, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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If you have a tank with motionless water, water that does not move, than it is stagnant, that is the definition of the word stagnant.

In the wild you have wind, rain and other factors which at least moves the water somewhat and helps to "roll" the surface.

Filterless tanks are possible and plants can do amazing things at keeping the water clean, but you need some movement to keep the plants thriving as well, whether that be a filter or small powerhead or whatever. the water needs to move to circulate nutrients to the plants.

Also how can we be sure that fish are "happy" in certain conditions or are they just surviving? just food for thought.

well, thats one reason I opted to keep the filter running in a purely mechanical capacity, to circulate more than anything. I think thats where my hold up was, primarily. I moved the hob to the far right corner, where i have no floating, or thin stemmed plants, and to help contain the current a little bit. Since, ive noticed that the mech filter is still doing its job, but without any REAL current in the tank to speak of, the difference in the fish is huge. My glass cats even come out in the open now, and hang out in the shade of my red crypt other than at feeding time.

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post #28 of 29 Old 02-17-2012, 11:39 PM
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Stagnant also has another definition, which is... water that is foul from standing. So maybe that's where the confusion came from.

One way to create subtle water movement is to place the heater horizontally near the substrate. Then... convection, is it?... causes water movement through the warm water rising, cooler water sinking action.

"My dither fish need dither fish!"
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post #29 of 29 Old 02-18-2012, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinaMinaMina View Post
Stagnant also has another definition, which is... water that is foul from standing. So maybe that's where the confusion came from.

One way to create subtle water movement is to place the heater horizontally near the substrate. Then... convection, is it?... causes water movement through the warm water rising, cooler water sinking action.
Yes that is true to and I'm sorry if I miss understood you, I meant stagnant as in water that doesn't move.
and yes a heater layed horizontally would move the water somewhat and is called convection just like the baseboard heating in a house circulates the air in the room. I totally agree with enough plants in the tank you dont need to filter it as long as you have the right fish and enough plants, I just feel some water movement is beneficial to both plants and fish, and to still perform water changes.
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