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Nothing Will Grow (I'm getting HORNWART-IDLY desperate)

5K views 22 replies 10 participants last post by  FuzzAz 
#1 ·
WARNING LONG INTRODUCTION

I have a 33 gallon fish tank. I did everything right (I think) when first setting it up. Let it sit for a while, made sure water was right, put in my fish from my ten gallon. I REALLY wanted to grow some plants so I went to the fish store and got a Flourescent light. I let it run my tank for a while and it worked out just fine. After about 2 weeks I threw in two little ornaments and some "fish tank" drift wood. I let the tank sit for I don't even know how long still and decided to put in some plants. Stupidly I didn't ask what the plants were but I will tell you they died quite fast. I was then informed I was using TOO strong of a light. I fixed it and went back to get some more plants. The guy gave me some really HARDY plants and said they should work. Still the brown leaves came and they died. I switched my filteration system to make the water move less and no improvement. I cleaned out a bunch of the gravel and no green leaves. My plecos aren't eating them, my koohli loach leaves them in the gravel and my albino catfish want nothing to do with them. Now I went to the ABSOLUTE easiest plant, some hornwart. If this doesnt work I am trying the C02, is there anything else I could try?
 
#4 ·
Find a new LFS. They obviously don't know anything about plants.

Too much lighting for a 10 gallon is really hard to do. 4 watts per gallon is not even high light so I highly doubt that is the problem.

Are you adding salt to your tank? If you are, stop. This is killing your plants.
Make sure that the plants you get are aquatic. PlantGeek.net - Plant Guide is a great place to find out a lot of info on plants.

Next, it doesn't matter what your substrate is. All you need is a good 2 inches and your plants will grow in it. I have river run gravel and I can grow anything short of Hemianthus callitricoides (HC) in my gravel.

Also, what are you tank parameters? GH, KH pH nitrates, nitrites, ammonia.
 
#15 ·
Next, it doesn't matter what your substrate is. All you need is a good 2 inches and your plants will grow in it. I have river run gravel and I can grow anything short of Hemianthus callitricoides (HC) in my gravel.
I was going to say what about HC and Pogostomen Helferi ("Downoi"). Hehe

If you have High lighting, and Co2, you might aswell go for the full package and seal it with Eco-complete, or unsterilized garden soil(Garden soil being the better option, although it will cloud your tank if disturbed).

Gravel does not help grow your plants further than giving them somewhere to root. In nature, plants have soil as their substrate in good growing conditions(eg. Amazonia lakes). This substrate offers nutrients available to the plants that we as planted tank keepers, could never match(Unless actually using soil ourselves, which I do not reccomend to anyone beginner/intermediary and most advanced plant keepers, simply because it requires 100% understanding of how soil will work for your plants, and the pros and cons of it.)

Also SinCrisis, Aquatic plants prefer low ph of around 6.0-6.5, and ph that is acidic, generally alters the carbonate water hardness to a water quality more desireable for plants. Anything up to around 7.4-7.5 can be withstood by plants when "simply dunking them in the water"
 
#5 ·
Sorry guys its a 33 gallon. I don't know what you mean for substrate, I have heard it before but I have about and inch and a half of gravel. I also have a fertilizer all in my tank, it looks like the gravel and apparently never need to be replaced but I bought two just in case and usually put more where I am planting the plants. My cooli loach is not the typical black loach, and he is about six inches and he killed all the other ones I bought for him to school with. I have a (I think this is the name) rubber mouth pleco and a normal pleco. I have little veggie wafers they get everynight to keep them from eating my plants. I have two because my friend shut down her tank and I got all of her fish, they co exsist quite nicely. My ammonia is low but my pH is fairly high. I am not sure what GH and KH are but I have taken the water to multiple pet stores and got it tested by them, they SAY its good. I am new to the freshwater stuff but I really want to learn and keep this hobby.
 
#6 ·
It is important to get a liquid test kit to moniter the chemical perameters of your fish tank water, and also the source of the water. Somthing like API fershwater master test kit. Aquarium Water Testing: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit This is especially important to provide others with nessacary information to help you find what is holding back your plants. Light is important, somthing in the 100 watt range for a 33 gallon, the correct color tempiture is 6,700k, I have heard of 5,000k to 10,000k will work but is less efficient and may promote algae. It sounds like you have some type of nutrient rich substrate and thats good. I suggest reading as much as you can on forums and whatever books you can get ahold of, Aquarium Plants Mini Encyclopedia Amazon.com: Aquarium Plants (Mini Encyclopedia Series for Aquarium Hobbyists): Peter Hiscock: Books explains things at a beginner level and I think is a usefull book. Lastly I have never had great sucess with aquarium plants until I started using CO2, I just use a Do It Yourself System and have gotten great results.
 
#7 · (Edited)
The light that I am using is Life Glo which has the 6700K you were talking about. I don't know if this is related but I turn the tank on at around 12pm and turn it off at aroung 11pm-12am (when I get home from work) would it be harmful to leave it on all the time. I will get the kit and the CO2 and see how it goes. I have also seen a lot about java moss and I am raising guppies, platys, and now apparenly mollies. Would the java moss survive in my tank in the questionable circumstances?
 
#9 ·
lighting is the key here hornwort is rootless and needs no substrate or co2 i grew it without both and got to the point were i was dumping handfulls of it a week but does need a good light source
the java would do fine in the gloomyest of tanks i have more luck growing it in low light than 10000k were algea gets the better of it
 
#10 ·
Substrate is the gravel, sand, rocks or whatever else you are using on the bottom of the tank to plant the plants in.

70-100 watts is a good range. New Lights?
Put your tank dimensions in there. Then determine what light level you want. If you go very high light you will almost for sure need CO2 injection. Anything under can work without it although the up side of high light might need CO2 depending on how the plants react and how much algae you get.

No salt added?

How much light do you have now? How many watts if you know? What type, flourewcent power compact flourescent, T12,10,8,5? Should all be on the bulb.

Java moss doesn't need much at all to grow. I can't get it to live regardless of what I do though but that is just one of my little quirks, one of those Murphy's Laws that is a fluke.

Also, what type of fertilizer?

The stuff you add, do you know exactly what it is? Eco Complete, laterite, fluorite, something else?

Sorry for all the quesitons but this will all help us help you.
 
#11 ·
Hmmm well from what I can read on the light bulb it says 20watt T8. It also says it has 1470 lumen if that helps any. Not sure on what type of flourescent but it is a flourescent. (Remember this is ALL new to me) I am not sure what kind of fertilizer it is, I could post a picture of what is left in the bag. No I haven't added salt and if by dimensions you mean tank measurements they are :30" long (Side to Side), 12" deep (From front to back) and 18" tall (Top to bottom). I don't know if I did that right but there it is.

 
#12 · (Edited)
That's fluorite if I remember my substrates correctly. Good stuff for plants from what I have read and heard. Fluorite is not a fertilizer, it is a substrate addative or used as a substrate all by itself.

The lighting is not enough. You need at least 50 to grow most standard aquarium plants so that you can actually notice it.

Look at this site: http://woo.gotdns.com/Aquarium/CalcLight.php?Width=12&Length=30

Your lighting now doesn't even come to low lighting. You want somewhere between moderate and high for best growth without CO2. High and very high, you will really want to consider pressurized CO2 although I have known a couple members who have done a 30-40 gallon with DIY. If you go DIY, I would use 4 two liter bottles staggered every week changing 2 out each week. This makes sure that you have 2 going full force when you change one out. Check valves will assist with constant pressure and help prevent back feed out of the tank. There is an article on here for setting one up in the plant section and another couple in the DIY section.

Hang in there, we will get you the information you need to get your plants to grow. It took me 6 months to get mine to grow but when they did they simply grew like weeds.

I think it is also time for you to educate your LFS as they obviously don't know much about plants or at least the one you have dealt with doesn't.
 
#13 ·
sometimes, if ur lfs' water conditions are drastically diffrent from urs, the shock will destroy ur plants. Try getting a clean bucket and accliamting ur plants as if u would fish. I had plants from a petsmart who had water taht was 6.8 and my water at home is 8.1 and all my plants died when i dunked them into the tank. However, i accimated them for like 2 days in a bucket and now they are growing fine.
 
#16 ·
Well this could be my mistake tank. I am thinking of getting an 80 gallon so whatever you can tell me to help make it a nice tank i can always fix in my next one. BTW how do you do water changes if you cannot disturb the gravel? I uaully center my attention on the nasty gravel when doing the change. I am not sure WHAT kind of CO2 I bought, it makes bubbles and has a little canister with sugar, activators, stabalizers, and water. It has been on all night but doesnt seem to be working. Is there suppossed to be a constant flow of bubbles because there DEFINATLEY isn't. I will go in a couple of days to get a light that is at least 70 watts. I had one before that was 20watts called sun glo and it burnt all of my plants so I hope the 70 watts won't kill the few I do have :|
 
#17 ·
Lol, plants don't get burnt under a light that only outputs 20W. It would have to be extremely high lighting to burn plants out(20-30W per gallon). The browning of the leaves, would have been an iron deficiency.
I reccomend getting a proper pressuized Co2 system, although it costs around $200-$250 (US) it is well worth it in the long run for the stability it offers your tank. Addition of Co2 in any tank, will change your water parameters, and the more Co2, you will find greater changes in your water quality. The pH will lower as more Co2 is added, and the waters carbonate hardness will also decrease, to suit acidic conditions. Acidic conditions are quite more beneficial to aquatic plants than alkaline conditions are (excluding plants like amazon swords, etc.).

If you have Eco-complete, or decide to use soil(if you do, do your research fully on it first, may I reccomend the book "The ecology of the planted aquarium" by Diana Walstad. Also, don't reccomend soil to anyone, as it will only destroy your aquarium if it is not understood properly.)

Get lights that are closest to 6700K as possible, and your going to want at least 2 tubes on any planted aquarium.

Kind regards,
Nicholas.
 
#18 ·
Well, I hope you get your lighting sorted out, I just had a massive mess in two of my tanks with hornwort dying. It basically shredded. My largest tank is 29g, and I have the hood that came with the kit, and a 20watt bulb. What kind of light fixture do you have? Mine states that I can't have more than a 20 watt bulb. I am also at my wits' end trying to keep plants alive. The only thing thriving is java moss and java fern.
 
#19 ·
I am not sure the lighting thing on this 33 gallon seems to only fit one tube. I doesn't say anything on the tank about what I can and cannot use. The light I am using right now IS 6700k so that is confusing me. Right now I just have a bubbling CO2 but it isn't even working right *sigh*. I am going to be buying an 80 gallon in a couple weeks for 250$ so maybe I can start it right with that one. Money is no problem I am working 3 jobs that pay fine so 200$ is nothing for something to make a pretty tank in my room.
 
#20 ·
WOW, I wish I could say that lol. Anyway just a suggestion, I would stick with the 33 for now. Sure the 80 gallon tank is $250, but then you will want a 260 watt light that will set you back another $250, and DIY CO2 is out of the question so another $250 for the high tech setup. Plus enough eco-complete, plants, filters your looking at well over a grand total. And wouldent that be a shame it it still didnt work.

with the 33 gallon just get a good light, somthing like this T-5 Aquarium Lighting: Nova Extreme T-5 Fixtures w/Lunar Lights and some sort of CO2, if you can spend the money to get the pressurised setup than do it, if not than I have had sucess with the DIY. Then get some root tabs and try again. then once you have got it down and learn what to do, go for the 80 gallon.

It took me 6 months of trial and error before I could get plants to survive, and another 6 months to figure out how to make them grow. If you just get the 80 gallon I am confedent you will be disapointed again because a bigger tank wont make them grow better.
 
#21 ·
I think your problem is in the lighting although I'm definitely not even close to being an expert. 20 watts over a 33 gallon just isn't going to grow anything. What I would do is just get a glass canopy and a standard home depot light fixture which you would hang over the tank. Then, just get some good plant bulbs (I would aim for 2-3 watts per gallon and if you can't find that in a one bulb fixture, then get 2 or 3). And I agree with what has been said about the 80 gallon tank. It will cost you a lot, so get it sorted out first in the 33, then aim for the 80.

Good luck.
 
#22 ·
Would it Hurt?

Because for NOW I only have the 20 watt tank light (On the hunt for higher wattage) Would it hurt my fish to leave the light on for longer. I know I would have to turn it off at night for a couple hours for my plecos to come out and get their veggie wafers but is it ok?
 
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