Need help with choosing plants? ? ? - Page 3
Tropical Fish

Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources » Freshwater Fish and Aquariums » Beginner Freshwater Aquarium » Beginner Planted Aquarium » Need help with choosing plants? ? ?

Need help with choosing plants? ? ?

This is a discussion on Need help with choosing plants? ? ? within the Beginner Planted Aquarium forums, part of the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium category; --> Originally Posted by Boredomb Okay is this supplement in your opinion always needed? or does it depend on the substrate? Which leads to another ...

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools vBmenu Seperating Image Search this Thread vBmenu Seperating Image
Need help with choosing plants? ? ?
Old 02-24-2011, 07:45 PM   #21
 
Byron's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boredomb View Post
Okay is this supplement in your opinion always needed? or does it depend on the substrate? Which leads to another question? ( and I hope I am not bugging with all these question? I just like to get as much understand and info on something before doing it rather then just jumping right in and getting over my head) On the substrates If I just use gravel I would obvisously have to use this supplement for the plants to flouish but if I use Seachem's Flourite or CarribSea's Eco-complete as u stated early on in the thread would I still need this supplement or would the plants get enough of the nutreints they need from that substrate alone?
This also depends upon the plants. Substrate-rooted plants obviously derive their nutrients via the roots in the substrate. Plants rooted on wood or gravel (Java Fern, Anubias, etc) do not. Stem plants are half and half, some assimilate nutrients via the roots along the stem, others more from the roots in the substrate, and others equally from both. Plus some use their leaves.

Aside from this, there are some plants that need a lot of nutrients, what we term heavy feeders. Swords are such. I have not yet used one of the plant substrates so I have no tangible evidence. Most of us would have some non-substrate rooted plants, even if only floating plants (which are frankly very important in any forest fish tank) which obviously need nutrients in the water column.

This is why I said previously that it could be once weekly or twice. However, I had forgotten the enriched substrate issue, and if you choose that, I would assume once weekly for Flourish Comprehensive would be it.

I'm going to be setting up a tank with Flourite black in the coming week, and it will be heavily planted [redoing my present 90g flooded Amazon forest tank], so in time I will have a more accurate answer to this question. But that's a couple months or more down the road before the results will be known.
Byron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2011, 08:30 PM   #22
 
Boredomb's Avatar
 
Well that clears up the stem plants for me I wasn't sure how they got the nutrients. But anyways I was thinging of using the Eco complete Soo with that said would u know how much I would for the 55? I found some in 20lb bags and with that substrate would u need something to hold it down like gravels? Or is it fine by itself?
Boredomb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2011, 11:48 PM   #23
 
Boredomb's Avatar
 
Okay Soo I came back to check the post to see if anyone has responded to realize that I can't type sorry everyone who has or who will be reading this I am typing on my cell phone which is new and am still trying to get use to it

Last edited by Boredomb; 02-24-2011 at 11:52 PM..
Boredomb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2011, 12:45 AM   #24
 
Eylisia's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boredomb View Post
So I have been doing some reading and have decided to do a planted aquarium with my 55gallon. I love the looks of real plants in aquariums. I just have one problem I have no clue what to plant? LoL there are some many plants. Being this will be my first attempt at planted aquarium what should I plant? and How many plants do I need for a tank that size? I will be using soil and rocks as my substrate. I have read that at first you need lots of fast growing plants to help get the tank going but need a some with good root base also some floating plants? The only problems is I have no clue which plants have/do what I have read about some of them but I think I am just getting myself confused
Can someone please help break it down for me???
Online plant stores tend to have a beginners section, these are easy plants that will basically grow almost regardless. Have a look :)

Edit: I've never used a special plant substrate or Co2, just plant tabs and liquid fertilizer, and I've never had a problem with their growth.

Last edited by Eylisia; 02-25-2011 at 12:47 AM..
Eylisia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2011, 10:23 AM   #25
 
Byron's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boredomb View Post
Well that clears up the stem plants for me I wasn't sure how they got the nutrients. But anyways I was thinging of using the Eco complete Soo with that said would u know how much I would for the 55? I found some in 20lb bags and with that substrate would u need something to hold it down like gravels? Or is it fine by itself?
Both Eco-complete and Flourite are substrates that can be used on their own, or mixed with fine gravel. I would not mix them with sand because the sand is much finer than the substrate stuff and would fall to the bottom which is pointless. The gravel, if mixed, would need to be the same grain size and same colour or it would look very odd (and different sizes again would not mix well). I would go with the plain substrate, which is what I'm doing in my rebuild.

As for the amount, it used to be said a pound of gravel per gallon. It's been years since I last bought substrate gravel, as I have more than enough for my tanks and keep it in one of those plastic garbage tubs on wheels so I can wheel it around (amazing how heavy a small bit of wet gravel can be) when I re-aquascape tanks. The Flourite comes in 15-pound bags, the Eco-complete is 20-pounds as you say. Three bags of Eco should do a 55g, with a bit to spare which is always good for touch-ups. You can manage with 1.5-2 inches at the front where shallow-rooted plants would be (or open space), but slope it up to 4 inches minimum at the back; terraces work better than sloping if you have some flat-type rock (or wood, rock is better for this as it is heavier to stay put). Doesn't have to be terraced throughout, maybe just the two rear corner areas, varying in size and shape so it is not artificial looking.

Byron.
Byron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2011, 12:03 PM   #26
 
Boredomb's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
Both Eco-complete and Flourite are substrates that can be used on their own, or mixed with fine gravel. I would not mix them with sand because the sand is much finer than the substrate stuff and would fall to the bottom which is pointless. The gravel, if mixed, would need to be the same grain size and same colour or it would look very odd (and different sizes again would not mix well). I would go with the plain substrate, which is what I'm doing in my rebuild.

As for the amount, it used to be said a pound of gravel per gallon. It's been years since I last bought substrate gravel, as I have more than enough for my tanks and keep it in one of those plastic garbage tubs on wheels so I can wheel it around (amazing how heavy a small bit of wet gravel can be) when I re-aquascape tanks. The Flourite comes in 15-pound bags, the Eco-complete is 20-pounds as you say. Three bags of Eco should do a 55g, with a bit to spare which is always good for touch-ups. You can manage with 1.5-2 inches at the front where shallow-rooted plants would be (or open space), but slope it up to 4 inches minimum at the back; terraces work better than sloping if you have some flat-type rock (or wood, rock is better for this as it is heavier to stay put). Doesn't have to be terraced throughout, maybe just the two rear corner areas, varying in size and shape so it is not artificial looking.

Byron.
Okay thanks and I bet a tub full of wet gravel is heavy to move around, I have a few more question I am hoping you will answer for me? We have discuss lighting and substrate and a little about the nutrients for the plants and they get the nutrients. So I have a question about filtration on this setup? I was thinking of running a canister filter? any suggestion with this? I am going to go and try and get the lights today if I can find them here in town if not I will have them ordered and I might pick the substrate up as well depending on the cost. The other question is once I have everything that is needed excluding the plants and the fish. I quess what I am asking is when I am ready to setup the tank up how do I go about doing it? Add the substrate and then the plants? or substrate water then plants? and How soon do I need to put in the fish after planting the tank?
Boredomb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2011, 06:10 PM   #27
 
Byron's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boredomb View Post
Okay thanks and I bet a tub full of wet gravel is heavy to move around, I have a few more question I am hoping you will answer for me? We have discuss lighting and substrate and a little about the nutrients for the plants and they get the nutrients. So I have a question about filtration on this setup? I was thinking of running a canister filter? any suggestion with this? I am going to go and try and get the lights today if I can find them here in town if not I will have them ordered and I might pick the substrate up as well depending on the cost. The other question is once I have everything that is needed excluding the plants and the fish. I quess what I am asking is when I am ready to setup the tank up how do I go about doing it? Add the substrate and then the plants? or substrate water then plants? and How soon do I need to put in the fish after planting the tank?
Filtration should be suited to the type of fish, as not all fish need the same water movement, and in a planted tank the principal function of the filter is simply moving the water around and through media to remove suspended particulate matter. Chemical and biological filtration are unnecessary, though obviously the latter occurs in any filter. But it is for the water movement and "clearing" the water; the plants do most of the "cleaning" of the water.

In a 55g you can use a canister rated to the tank, or a sponge also rated. Latter is cheapest, and certainly adequate provided you intend forest fish that do not require significant water currents. If some of the latter fish are to be included, then a canister will work better. The return can be positioned against the end wall to reduce flow or slightly out if more is needed. Were it me, i would go with a canister in a 55g simply because it is more versatile.

First thing is to wash the substrate material and place it in the cleaned tank. Washing depends upon type, the plant substrates I believe only need rinsing, the package will tell you or you can check on the company's website.

I then arrange hard aquascaping, wood and rocks, making terraces or whatever. I always sit in front of the tank as I would if viewing the finished setup, so that i can see the layout from that perspective--it can look very different from what you think you see when looking down. This can take some fiddling. Wood is always best as 3 or more items (unless one very large piece); 2 tens to look artificial and contrived. Never space wood equally, always odd distances from each other, again more natural. Try to get a sense of depth. One trick to this is having a visual "path" to the back glass somewhere--never in the centre, always off to one side or winding.

Once the hard stuff is in (knowing it may shift when plants are added), gently add water so as not to disturb the substrate. Aiming the hose at a solid object like wood or rock works for this. I have the water temp close to what I want in the end; it is easier that heating cold water when full. I fill it about 2/3 to 3/4. Then I plant. First, I place the plants still in their pots (if new plants), as they are easier to move around. The wood may move around a bit at this stage. Once you're satisfied, unpot and plant. Fill the tank up. Connect filter, heater. Let it run overnight to ensure everything is working, heater is correctly set.

Sometimes i add water conditioner when I first fill the tank (if I intend to add fish immediately, as I would if I was just re-setting an existing tank), or the next day in case I need to drain out some water. If you are transferring wood or plants from an existing tank you have, you want to retain the bacteria so use the conditioner when you first fill.

If all's working, add a few fish. With live plants the fish will be fine, but just a few.
Byron is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Byron For This Useful Post:
Boredomb (02-25-2011)
Old 02-25-2011, 11:10 PM   #28
 
Boredomb's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
Filtration should be suited to the type of fish, as not all fish need the same water movement, and in a planted tank the principal function of the filter is simply moving the water around and through media to remove suspended particulate matter. Chemical and biological filtration are unnecessary, though obviously the latter occurs in any filter. But it is for the water movement and "clearing" the water; the plants do most of the "cleaning" of the water.

In a 55g you can use a canister rated to the tank, or a sponge also rated. Latter is cheapest, and certainly adequate provided you intend forest fish that do not require significant water currents. If some of the latter fish are to be included, then a canister will work better. The return can be positioned against the end wall to reduce flow or slightly out if more is needed. Were it me, i would go with a canister in a 55g simply because it is more versatile.

First thing is to wash the substrate material and place it in the cleaned tank. Washing depends upon type, the plant substrates I believe only need rinsing, the package will tell you or you can check on the company's website.

I then arrange hard aquascaping, wood and rocks, making terraces or whatever. I always sit in front of the tank as I would if viewing the finished setup, so that i can see the layout from that perspective--it can look very different from what you think you see when looking down. This can take some fiddling. Wood is always best as 3 or more items (unless one very large piece); 2 tens to look artificial and contrived. Never space wood equally, always odd distances from each other, again more natural. Try to get a sense of depth. One trick to this is having a visual "path" to the back glass somewhere--never in the centre, always off to one side or winding.

Once the hard stuff is in (knowing it may shift when plants are added), gently add water so as not to disturb the substrate. Aiming the hose at a solid object like wood or rock works for this. I have the water temp close to what I want in the end; it is easier that heating cold water when full. I fill it about 2/3 to 3/4. Then I plant. First, I place the plants still in their pots (if new plants), as they are easier to move around. The wood may move around a bit at this stage. Once you're satisfied, unpot and plant. Fill the tank up. Connect filter, heater. Let it run overnight to ensure everything is working, heater is correctly set.

Sometimes i add water conditioner when I first fill the tank (if I intend to add fish immediately, as I would if I was just re-setting an existing tank), or the next day in case I need to drain out some water. If you are transferring wood or plants from an existing tank you have, you want to retain the bacteria so use the conditioner when you first fill.

If all's working, add a few fish. With live plants the fish will be fine, but just a few.
Okay thanks alot!!! Soo My wife really really wants an angelfish well I am not too sure about a couple of those but reading about the Scalare Angelfish maybe that's something I can work up too with that said in the description it talks about "The aquarium should be well planted; Echinodorus bleherae and similar plants in the sword family are ideal, with wood and standing branches. Floating plants should always be used to shade the aquarium and provide the dim light natural to this fish." I got a question how "well planted" do I need to start off planting? Is a well planted tank for a new tank a bad thing? is that something you need to work up to by adding plants overtime? Also what is considered a well planted tank? What I was thinking was I could go ahead and start setting up the tank with plant types suited for this fish maybe throwing a few compatable fish in the tank for awhile too see how the tank does over time then maybe get an angelfish. Is this way of thinking a bad idea? Is there another approach of doing this?
Boredomb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 11:59 AM   #29
 
Byron's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boredomb View Post
Okay thanks alot!!! Soo My wife really really wants an angelfish well I am not too sure about a couple of those but reading about the Scalare Angelfish maybe that's something I can work up too with that said in the description it talks about "The aquarium should be well planted; Echinodorus bleherae and similar plants in the sword family are ideal, with wood and standing branches. Floating plants should always be used to shade the aquarium and provide the dim light natural to this fish." I got a question how "well planted" do I need to start off planting? Is a well planted tank for a new tank a bad thing? is that something you need to work up to by adding plants overtime? Also what is considered a well planted tank? What I was thinking was I could go ahead and start setting up the tank with plant types suited for this fish maybe throwing a few compatable fish in the tank for awhile too see how the tank does over time then maybe get an angelfish. Is this way of thinking a bad idea? Is there another approach of doing this?
A 55g is ideal for a group of 5 angels--and they must be in a group or you can have troubles as it explains in the profile. And always buy them together as a group, never one now and another later, etc. This is also explained in the profile. And if angels are in the plans, then select the other fish carefully with that in mind. Not all tetra make good companions for angels, for instance. Always know the final expected tank in terms of fish, and build it gradually.

Starting a new planted tank is actually much easier and more likely of success if it is well planted on day 1 (or at the start anyway). Plants will grow in, and later a few may need to be removed (to other tanks, other hobbyists, the store, or the compost heap). But having a good selection of plants from the first will always be more successful, guaranteed. As you are thinking of swords, Echinodorus bleherae, the commonly available sword plant, I would get five of them at the start. A pygmy chain sword is ideal for bottom planting, and only one or two as they will send out runners with many daughter plants once they are established. This species in the substrate cover in my 90g flooded Amazon forest tank, and if you check the photos you will see the plant is everywhere--all from one little plants. It took 5-6 months to get to this stage, but it will happen.

Once you have a decent number of plants, fish can immediately be added. I would suggest starting off with just a few, and increasing the fish. Plants grab ammonia and change it to ammonium as their preferred source of nitrogen, so in a well planted tank there is not going to be any discernible cycle provided you don't overload the biology with too many fish at once.

Byron.
Byron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 02:21 PM   #30
 
Boredomb's Avatar
 
Okay Soo I am having a really hard time trying to find a hood for daul bulbs? No one in my town has them or can get them any suggestion on how to get one or way? Everyone in my has T5 dual and that's it. I can get a hood with 1 bulb would that work if not what then?
Posted via Mobile Device
Boredomb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help choosing plants for South American Biotope redchigh Beginner Planted Aquarium 13 05-21-2010 08:14 PM
Help choosing plants for my 10gal, to later use as plant filters. redchigh Beginner Planted Aquarium 10 01-21-2010 01:28 PM
Help on choosing coral killjoy391 Coral and Reef Creatures 11 06-17-2007 09:29 PM
need help choosing a scavenger miagrrl Freshwater and Tropical Fish 14 06-13-2007 11:23 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:52 AM.