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my plants are turning brown

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my plants are turning brown
Old 02-09-2013, 11:55 AM   #21
ao
 
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Sorry if i missed anything.
Seachem flourish is primarily micro nutrients.

for the root feeders you should provide them with some root tabs as the sword is showing classic signs of nitrate deficiency. without any stocking in the tank there is no source of nutrients for the plants either ;)
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:59 AM   #22
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aokashi View Post
Sorry if i missed anything.
Seachem flourish is primarily micro nutrients.

for the root feeders you should provide them with some root tabs as the sword is showing classic signs of nitrate deficiency. without any stocking in the tank there is no source of nutrients for the plants either ;)
I give them root tabs as well.

I could probably find a few small fish to put in the tank. Is that what you mean by stocking?
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:19 PM   #23
 
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I think there's something else here, from the photos. BTW, the film on the moss is algae, so the light may be on too long; what is the duration? And can you specify the light (it may be related to the sword too)?

The sword...Mine in the tank with Flourite (which is basically the same as Eco-Complete that you have) did the same. I don't know if there is a direct relation, but... . The root tabs you use should help though.

Your GH is sufficient if the number is correct, but what are you using to raise this? Previously in the thread your tap water was near-zero GH.

I would not mess with Excel. It is a toxic chemical that can cause more trouble than help. I've written elsewhere about this.

Byron.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:29 PM   #24
 
Coralife 6700K T-5 High Output Fluorescent Lamp is the light that I'm using. Last time we talked it was determined that the light was on to long so i turned it down to only being on for 8 hours a day.

I've been using root tabs since the tank was set up. (earlier last year) and the amazon sword still turns brown. They are a beautiful plant but I'm debating chucking it...I just can't seem to get it to grow. Which is weird because YEARS ago when I had a fancy guppy tank the amazon sword got so big it took over the tank.

Previously I thought we determined my GH was to high ( I was supplementing with Equilibrium every time I did a water change.) I've stopped supplementing and the GH is coming back down to a more normal level. From what I've read online it should be no higher then 10DH (is that 10 drops?) I will continue to test GH with every water change and determine, based on the number, if I need to start putting Equilibrium in it again. Is each drop equivalent to 1 DH? I've read online that it should be between 5 and 10 DH for most fish. Is that correct?

You are correct. My tap water only takes 3-4 drops to make the color turn green on the GH test.

I don't use excel. I was at first but I stopped after we discussed changing to flourish complete.


Right now I do a 50% water change weekly. AFter the change I put a cap of flourish complete in it. 3 days later I put another cap. I also suppliment with the root tabs every 3-4 month's. Other then that I have a sponge filter hooked to a bubbler and that's it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
I think there's something else here, from the photos. BTW, the film on the moss is algae, so the light may be on too long; what is the duration? And can you specify the light (it may be related to the sword too)?

The sword...Mine in the tank with Flourite (which is basically the same as Eco-Complete that you have) did the same. I don't know if there is a direct relation, but... . The root tabs you use should help though.

Your GH is sufficient if the number is correct, but what are you using to raise this? Previously in the thread your tap water was near-zero GH.

I would not mess with Excel. It is a toxic chemical that can cause more trouble than help. I've written elsewhere about this.

Byron.

Last edited by aklick; 02-09-2013 at 12:33 PM..
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:54 PM   #25
 
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Quote:
Coralife 6700K T-5 High Output Fluorescent Lamp is the light that I'm using. Last time we talked it was determined that the light was on to long so i turned it down to only being on for 8 hours a day.
I'm remembering this issue now. I wouldn't reduce the light yet. You had initially asked what the fluff was, but it doesn't seem bad; I get similar in the moss on the tops of my standing wood as it is nearest to the light. Floating plants help with this.

Quote:
I've been using root tabs since the tank was set up. (earlier last year) and the amazon sword still turns brown. They are a beautiful plant but I'm debating chucking it...I just can't seem to get it to grow. Which is weird because YEARS ago when I had a fancy guppy tank the amazon sword got so big it took over the tank.
This happens. I have E. bleherae in three tanks, and only in one (the one with the Flourite) is it like this. In the other two it is lush and green, with flower stalks galore. It is a nutrient issue obviously, but I can't as yet pin it down. Last week I tore this tank down, replacing the Flourite with sand, and added a root tab plus of course the Flourish Comp, so I will see if it improves.

Quote:
Previously I thought we determined my GH was to high ( I was supplementing with Equilibrium every time I did a water change.) I've stopped supplementing and the GH is coming back down to a more normal level. From what I've read online it should be no higher then 10DH (is that 10 drops?) I will continue to test GH with every water change and determine, based on the number, if I need to start putting Equilibrium in it again. Is each drop equivalent to 1 DH? I've read online that it should be between 5 and 10 DH for most fish. Is that correct?

You are correct. My tap water only takes 3-4 drops to make the color turn green on the GH test.
If it takes 3 drops, that is 3 dGH, and 4 drops is 4 dGH. That is not bad for the tap water, but back before it was near-zero (less than 1 dGH) I thought?

Anyway, yes, I agree to let it lower. The soft water fish will be fine no matter how low it goes; it is only the plants, and 4 dGH is about as low as you want for them.

Quote:
I don't use excel. I was at first but I stopped after we discussed changing to flourish complete.
I thought Excel was mentioned earlier... I may just be mixing up threads again.


Quote:
Right now I do a 50% water change weekly. AFter the change I put a cap of flourish complete in it. 3 days later I put another cap. I also suppliment with the root tabs every 3-4 month's. Other then that I have a sponge filter hooked to a bubbler and that's it.
If the "bubbler" is just the sponge filter normally, fine; it it is some additional bubbling device, I would remove it. CO2 may well be driven out with too much disturbance. I've had no issues with sponge filters.

The root tabs should be no more than 3 months [Seachem says every 3 months], I was using them every two months and have just gone to three to see if it makes a difference. But I wouldn't go beyond 3. I have a list on the fish room shelf with the months listed when I add the tabs on the first water change of the month, so I don't forget. I also have to do filter rinsings every 2 months, and it all gets mixed up.

You could delay the Flourish Comp to the day following a water change, if the conditioner is one that detoxifies heavy metals. Seachem said these will negate the traqce inerals in Flourish, so waiting a day eliminates this. I don't know if it makes that much difference, but I do it anyway. The the second dose 2-3 days after that.

Byron.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:02 PM   #26
ao
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aklick View Post
I give them root tabs as well.

I could probably find a few small fish to put in the tank. Is that what you mean by stocking?

In the flip side I've seen plants being burnt by root tabs too. lol
which brand are you using?

what are the difference in environment between this sword plant and your last one? including substrate depth and type?
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:50 PM   #27
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aokashi View Post
In the flip side I've seen plants being burnt by root tabs too. lol
which brand are you using?

what are the difference in environment between this sword plant and your last one? including substrate depth and type?

That's hard to say really. My other tank was a 20 gallon and had just regular blue rocks. The substrate I have now is CaribSea Eco Complete Black Planted Aquarium Substrate

It could be that I'm not keeping good enough track of when I add the tabs. I need to start putting it in a calendar so I can keep track. The brand I'm using is made by seachem I believe.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:58 PM   #28
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
I'm remembering this issue now. I wouldn't reduce the light yet. You had initially asked what the fluff was, but it doesn't seem bad; I get similar in the moss on the tops of my standing wood as it is nearest to the light. Floating plants help with this.



This happens. I have E. bleherae in three tanks, and only in one (the one with the Flourite) is it like this. In the other two it is lush and green, with flower stalks galore. It is a nutrient issue obviously, but I can't as yet pin it down. Last week I tore this tank down, replacing the Flourite with sand, and added a root tab plus of course the Flourish Comp, so I will see if it improves.
Do all swords grow flowers and stocks? Mine, even when it was huge never had stalks. I've always wanted to get it to have stalks and flowers though. The one I have I got at a local pet store. WHich may be part of the issue. Maybe it just wasn't hardy enough? All the plants that I have got from a guy on this forum have done GREAT. Maybe I should look into getting a different cut of E. bleherae?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
If it takes 3 drops, that is 3 dGH, and 4 drops is 4 dGH. That is not bad for the tap water, but back before it was near-zero (less than 1 dGH) I thought?

Anyway, yes, I agree to let it lower. The soft water fish will be fine no matter how low it goes; it is only the plants, and 4 dGH is about as low as you want for them.



I thought Excel was mentioned earlier... I may just be mixing up threads again.
Yeah my GH was originally at zero so you remember correctly.

Excel may have been mentioned. I have some but I don't use it any more. (per your recommendation) I may have said it on accident though instead of complete.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
If the "bubbler" is just the sponge filter normally, fine; it it is some additional bubbling device, I would remove it. CO2 may well be driven out with too much disturbance. I've had no issues with sponge filters.
This is where I'm confused. I have a Azoo Oxygen plus bio-filter #7. It gets air from the Marina 200 air pump that I have attached to it. Is that an ok set up? Other then that I have nothing. Just my plants (and I do have a BIG thing of Ricca floating so that will help with the light issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
The root tabs should be no more than 3 months [Seachem says every 3 months], I was using them every two months and have just gone to three to see if it makes a difference. But I wouldn't go beyond 3. I have a list on the fish room shelf with the months listed when I add the tabs on the first water change of the month, so I don't forget. I also have to do filter rinsings every 2 months, and it all gets mixed up.

You could delay the Flourish Comp to the day following a water change, if the conditioner is one that detoxifies heavy metals. Seachem said these will negate the traqce inerals in Flourish, so waiting a day eliminates this. I don't know if it makes that much difference, but I do it anyway. The the second dose 2-3 days after that.

Byron.
Ok I'm not keeping track of when I add the tabs so I"ll start doing that. Should I continue with the flourish Comp even though it may be hurting the sword?

Could my substrate be part of the issue? I have the CaribSea Eco Complete Black Planted Aquarium Substrate.

I really don't want to have to tear this aquarium appart but if I have to I'd rather do it before I go get a few fish.

Also will getting a few fish help? If so I can go pick up some neon tetra's at the local pet store.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:09 PM   #29
 
The tabs I'm using are flourish tabs. Are those ok or are there better one's? I need to order more so if I should get something different let me know.

Also could snails be adding to my problems at all? I have at least 1/2 a dozen or more in my tank. They must have come on some of the plants I ordered recently
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:24 PM   #30
 
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Quote:
Do all swords grow flowers and stocks? Mine, even when it was huge never had stalks. I've always wanted to get it to have stalks and flowers though. The one I have I got at a local pet store. WHich may be part of the issue. Maybe it just wasn't hardy enough? All the plants that I have got from a guy on this forum have done GREAT. Maybe I should look into getting a different cut of E. bleherae?
Read the profile of Echinodorus bleherae. It will answer on the flower, and will explain why this "species" is so variable. If you have questons after that, ask; I wrote the profile, so I would only be repeating all that here.

Quote:
This is where I'm confused. I have a Azoo Oxygen plus bio-filter #7. It gets air from the Marina 200 air pump that I have attached to it. Is that an ok set up? Other then that I have nothing. Just my plants (and I do have a BIG thing of Ricca floating so that will help with the light issue.
I'm not familiar with this filter, can you post a link to some data? But generally speaking, I would leave it if it is part of the filtration system.

Quote:
Ok I'm not keeping track of when I add the tabs so I"ll start doing that. Should I continue with the flourish Comp even though it may be hurting the sword?
Yes, the Flourish Comp is likely necessary (you have very soft water, as I do, so plant nutrients have to be added) and unless overdosed it will not hurt plants. The issue with overdosing is that some nutrients in excess cause other nutrients to be deficient because of how the nutrient reacts in the plant. Which is why I am always recommending complete (comprehensive) fertilizers that are balanced.

Quote:
Could my substrate be part of the issue? I have the CaribSea Eco Complete Black Planted Aquarium Substrate.
I wouldn't think so. But as I mentioned, I had the same issue with swords with Flourite, which is the same type of substrate. I didn't use tabs because one should not have to with an enriched substrate. I don't know why this should be so, it is probably just coincidence.

Quote:
I really don't want to have to tear this aquarium appart but if I have to I'd rather do it before I go get a few fish.
You should not have substrate fish like corys and loaches with EC or Flourite substrates; the gravel is rough. I had issues with my corys and had to remove them. This is one reason why I was prepared to tear down this tank and reset with sand. Now I have a group of 12 Corydoras habrosus in this tank. Depending upon the intended fish, up to you about changing substrates.

Quote:
Also will getting a few fish help? If so I can go pick up some neon tetra's at the local pet store.
That will increase the ammonia/ammonium which is the major source of nitrogen. One planted tank person suggested to me that nitrogen deficiency was causing this. In my 70g I wouldn't have thought so. I do have a plant-only tank that is my Quarantine for new fish, and the plants do quite well in this, slower growth but still growing. Though I have no larger swords in this tank, and they are heavy feeders.
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