My leaves are turning to MUSH! - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #1 of 20 Old 03-07-2010, 11:08 PM Thread Starter
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My leaves are turning to MUSH!

So far I've only noticed it on one stem of one plant...
It was a stem of my Shinnersia Rivularis (mexican oak-leaf plant)

It was floating on top of the water after it (apparently) drifted out of the gravel.
Underwater, it looked okay, but when I picked it up several of the leaves had a slime consistancy, and stuck on my hand. I gently felt some of the other leaves and they too were mush.
The stem seems perfectly fine, and the very top set of leaves look okay, but the rest of the stem is completely naked.

I cut the bottom 5" off of the stem and planted it, but what could have made the leaves dissolve?
It was in my filterless 5G which is still cycling...

I suppose it's possible it was bruised, but SA seemed to have everything packed really well.
Also, the rotala indica stems seem to be getting kind of soft too.

All my plants in both tanks have noticable growth but is there something I'm doing wrong?
Is this a warning sign?

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post #2 of 20 Old 03-07-2010, 11:47 PM
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Uhm if the plant drop the old leaves with which it was shipped that's very common on sensitive plants; my Tiger Lotus for example lost ALL leaves after shipment then then grew back from the roots left only.
However if its not ONLY the "old" leaves doing this but leaves that grew after you already planted them then I'd investigate your light intensity there; because many plants will indeed literally melt under too much light.

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post #3 of 20 Old 03-08-2010, 12:18 AM
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How is your 5G cycling w/o a filter?

Anyways ya I think thats normal if they are new and they should grow new leafs soon to replace the ones that died.

Also isn't rotala indica a stem plant? If so mine get mushy on the bottom sometimes and I just cut the mushy bottom part off and replant them. Just letting you know you're not the only one that that happens to, so it's more likely normal.

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post #4 of 20 Old 03-08-2010, 12:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel079 View Post
Uhm if the plant drop the old leaves with which it was shipped that's very common on sensitive plants; my Tiger Lotus for example lost ALL leaves after shipment then then grew back from the roots left only.
However if its not ONLY the "old" leaves doing this but leaves that grew after you already planted them then I'd investigate your light intensity there; because many plants will indeed literally melt under too much light.
Thank you for the reply, I am relieved that neither is any need to worry.
It is indeed the old leaves, there are two or three leaves at the growing end that look fine.

Also, when I first planted them in the 5G, I put the only extra cool white bulb I had over the tank...
which would have been over 4 WPG. (23W bulb over 5G!)

I now have a 10W CFL, with a homemade reflector that I purposefully made somewhat inneffective so it should be getting, I don't know... 5-7W of light? Something close to there. (hard to guess, thats a good ballpark. Definately less than ten. If it's too bright, I can move the light farther away and calculate with the inverse square law.
(You know what that is, right? Double the distance from a light source, the amount of light hitting the object is reduced by 25%)

I'll see how everything is in a week, but how much light do you think I need to make my indica and rotala become red again?
(They were bright red when I got them and are already almost completely green. Could it be iron, or is it light?)

-----edit

just read your post again. Guess it could have gotten bruised in shipping... I hope they grow back :/
Since it happened in my 5G I moved the melted one to my 10G guppy...
(mostly so the snails could eat all the mush off)

Also, austin, you posted a split second before me so I couldn't squeeze a reply in-
it's the leaves that are mush, the stems seem okay to me.
I was very gentle.

I'm just letting bacteria and plants do their thing without a filter in this tank...
At maximum population, it'll probably have 6 ember tetras and a small colony of an invert (dwarf shrimp or micro crabs) with some MTS.
It'll still be ever slightly under-populated so the plants and occasional WC every couple weeks should be plenty. :D Au Naturale tank.

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^^ genius
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Last edited by redchigh; 03-08-2010 at 12:38 AM.
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post #5 of 20 Old 03-08-2010, 09:38 AM
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If its only on the 1 plant and only the old leaves; I am VERY certain this is because of the shipping (like I explained further up with my Lotus) and not because of your light.
I also have a 10w over my 3g (cause really its the smallest wattage you find) and there's no issues about this light there.
Just keep an eye on your other plants if they show any signs of too much light melting them THEN I'd fiddle around with your light.

About red plant & iron you'll find VERY controversy ideas about this. Personally I have not noticed a difference leaving them alone vs. using extra iron in the tanks. What I can tell you thou if you have a lights that like ~8000Kelvin they will look more red then under a 2000Kelvin light; they reflect what they receive.

On a lil side note for you my 3g that's been planted lil over 2 weeks now no filter nadda but lights; its doing great, snails are happy as can be and plants are thriving in it, no funky smells no noting. Initially had a little film up top the first few days but its also since gone.

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post #6 of 20 Old 03-08-2010, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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I noticed that now several of the ludwigea leaves on other stems are developing holes in them... they only turn to mush when they hit the surface of the water.
happening in both tanks, btw.
And the hornwort is turning rather.... brown. (I have it anchored in the substrate in both tanks. basically just weighted down with a rock.
(I thought this was a possibility in the guppy tank, because I used aquarium salt in it a while back...
but the %g is a mystery to me.)

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post #7 of 20 Old 03-08-2010, 10:49 AM
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Holes is general a sign of lack of nutrition. The salt can do that to plants yes but then not in your small filterless since you ain't using salt there right?
Its normal on stem plants to loos A leaf every once in a while below my Ludwigia I vacuum up maybe a handful per week from the Ludwigia "bushes". A FEW is ok but dropping all leaves would not be; so since I can not see your tank myself you need to carefully evaluate that. Kinda like humans, to have a FEW hair in your brush is fine but if you had clumps hair in your brush then there's a problem - Know what I mean!?

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post #8 of 20 Old 03-08-2010, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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are a few holes in the leaves normal, or is that something I need to take care of?

do I need to go buy some flourish excel and dose a half-strength weekly?

I see how snails got a bad rap...
my first thought was "I thought snails weeren't supposed to eat healthy plants!"

Suppose it's just my lack of aquatic gardening skills. :-/

I tested the water-
Nitrites and ammonia are at the same level they were.
but strangely...
KH- went up one point
GH went down one point

?

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post #9 of 20 Old 03-08-2010, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redchigh View Post
are a few holes in the leaves normal, or is that something I need to take care of?

do I need to go buy some flourish excel and dose a half-strength weekly?

I see how snails got a bad rap...
my first thought was "I thought snails weeren't supposed to eat healthy plants!"

Suppose it's just my lack of aquatic gardening skills. :-/

I tested the water-
Nitrites and ammonia are at the same level they were.
but strangely...
KH- went up one point
GH went down one point

?
1. What (if any) fert are you using in this tank now? You may need a good complete balanced once like Flourish, but I can comment once I know what you're using now.

2. Common snails like Malaysian Trumpet/livebearing, pond or bladder snails do not eat plants. They will eat decaying plant matter as part of their cleanup work, just as they will eat minimal amount of some algae. But these snails do not eat live plants. I have had these three species in all my planted tanks for over 20 years and I have never observed any sign of anything eating plant leaves.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #10 of 20 Old 03-08-2010, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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no ferts now, just soil substrate. (tempted to break the whole thing down, the only thing in there that will even care about the soil is dwarf sag and maybe vallis.

I'm not using any ferts now... I was hoping some natural elements from the soil would dissolve into the water. :/

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