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lumens of fluorescent tubes

14K views 30 replies 8 participants last post by  j1ceasar 
#1 · (Edited)
Sorry to jump in, but where can I find the Lumen Rating of my bulbs? I'm having a bit of the same problem mentioned here [brown algae on glass/plants (anubias) and pretty much a halt to my cabomba growth]. I have a dual 48" T5-HO system with a 6700 and a full spectrum "Colormax" (both by Coralife) over my 55G. Finding the wattage has and color temp hasn't been much of a problem, but I have also been told that with T5s the Watts/Gallon rule doesn't apply. I'm hoping the Lumens rating would apply, but I cannot find it on Coralife's/Oceanic's site nor on the bulb packaging. So what does?

Plants I have in the tank are currently 3x Java Ferns, 2x Anubias, about 10-15 stalks of Camboba and 20 or so stalks of Roseafolia. Hoping to add some more this week/end. As of yet I have not started adding ferts or CO2. Though would be more than open to it. I have access to Flourish here at the LFS, and am handy enough to do a DIY CO2 provided I can find an adequate glass diffuser around here somewhere, or fashion a suitable one myself. Substrate is your standard Tahitian Moon Black Sand by Carribsea, none of this fancy dancy flourite stuff.

PS - As a note, I use way too many /s in my posts. Probably a few many ()s as well.
PPS - I need to make an avatar.
PPPS - Excessive use of post-scripts.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I've moved your post to a new thread as it was not directly related to the other, and more may see it now which means better response. I'll start.

Not all manufacturers will provide some info like lumens, but in this case with T5HO dual tubes over a 55g I can tell you it is a lot of light intensity. I tried two 48-inch T5HO tubes last year over my 115g which is 5 feet in length and deeper and wider than your 55g (I'm assuming a 4-foot standard with 48-inch tubes) and it was far too much light, I took it back after a week and got a regular dual-tube T8 fixture.

You are correct, with T5 HO the watts/per/gallon idea is not accurate, as it basically is with regular fluorescent tubes, though the new models with less watts and equal intensity (energy saving and all that) has thrown some doubt into the wpg idea anyway even for T8 tubes.

There are a couple ways to handle this; if this is relatively new, the store may consider exchanging the fixture. Or perhaps the tubes, and you can get the T5 NO [=normal output, rather than HO high output]. Two tubes of NO will still be a lot of light, but more manageable.

The higher light intensity means you need more nutrients. CO2 may or may not come into it [more in a moment], but more liquid fertilization certainly will. Plants can only grow if everything they need is available, including light (adequate intensity and duration) and 17 nutrients of which carbon (CO2) is one, nitrogen (as ammonia/ammonium from the fish) is another, and then the mineral micro-nutrients usually supplied via liquid or substrate fertilizer(s). If the nutrients are not sufficient to balance the light, the plants can't use the light and algae will, big time. This is called the law of minimum, plant growth is limited by the factor in least supply.

Some of your plants, like Anubias, like shade. Cabomba likes more light. If you arrange the plants accordingly, and have some floating plants, it can work well. I can provide more suggestions on tubes, etc. if you ask, but I hope the above will help a bit.

Byron.
 
#3 ·
I'd definately say lower your light...

Maybe if you can just take one tube out, it'll help in the meantime. (until you get new NO bulbs)

The only thing I would say about floating plants, is that you'll have to throw some out weekly... that's a LOT of light- floating plants may become a nuisance in the long term.
 
#4 ·
Floating plants are a check. I've been talking to Angel and she lives here close to where I do. I had planned on getting some of her excess pennywort when she trims it and trying to float it in the corner where my anubias is. I've been told this is possible to float anyway. If not, any other suggestions?

Not sure where I can find T5 NO bulbs. The LFS has mostly T8s. The Graveyard (PetCo) has t8s and t5-HO. I'm going to a bigger LFS today in Nashville and will check there. I have been looking at Lowe's to no avail. I initially wanted a dual T8 48s but couldn't find any here. Probably should have just ordered them in hindsight. However I fou nd the T5s at a good price and was getting other supplies anyway, so I scooped them up as well.

The tank is about 110 - 125% stocked. I think my organic nutrients should be fine. I had planned on picking up some flourish comp today. Bad idea?
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#5 ·
Floating plants are a check. I've been talking to Angel and she lives here close to where I do. I had planned on getting some of her excess pennywort when she trims it and trying to float it in the corner where my anubias is. I've been told this is possible to float anyway. If not, any other suggestions?

Not sure where I can find T5 NO bulbs. The LFS has mostly T8s. The Graveyard (PetCo) has t8s and t5-HO. I'm going to a bigger LFS today in Nashville and will check there. I have been looking at Lowe's to no avail. I initially wanted a dual T8 48s but couldn't find any here. Probably should have just ordered them in hindsight. However I fou nd the T5s at a good price and was getting other supplies anyway, so I scooped them up as well.

The tank is about 110 - 125% stocked. I think my organic nutrients should be fine. I had planned on picking up some flourish comp today. Bad idea?
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Pennywort makes a lovely floating plant. Left to float, it develops larger leaves (due to the closeness to CO2 in the air plus the light) with roots dangling in the water. One of the best stem plants to float.

T5 NO tubes are not as common. May have to order online. If the purchase was recent from a store, they may exchange or give you a credit; most want your continued business.

Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium is one of the best fertilizers. I use it; it takes very little (half a tsp for 30 gallons) once or maybe twice a week, so more economical long-term. Seachem make several plant products, in near-identical bottles, make sure it is the Comprehensive.

B.
 
#6 ·
Spoot that's too much light to balance I couldn't find the lumen online neither but hopefully this msg will get to you before Nashville: Look at the store at the box within the fine print it'll tell ya the lumens.
Also; I donno about yours but our Lowes here I just but the 4ft GE Daylights/ Sunlights and they're perfect the tank you seen the 55g that runs with ONE Ge Daylight 32w and uhm well what can I say you're coming to get plants so that say's it all LOL. Worst case when you're here this weekend stop by Lowes here on the way home and pick up a pack GE Daylights they're like $8 or something like that for the 4ft 2-pack.

Balancing these lights with ferts (I'd use Flourish Comprehensive) will be a LOT easier!!!

I'll not trim the 55g until after you been here we could take some of the nice big Pennywort of the top (has bigger leaves then below)....I'm sure between all these tanks we can find ya something to hook your tank up with :)

Once that tank is balanced with plants-lights-ferts that algae will automatically subside with no further hassle involved.
 
#7 ·
Ok, I found some Flourish Comprehensive for The Planted Tank. Got enough to last me a year.

No go here on the NO T5s. They had 36" but no 48s. I checked both my fixture and bulb boxes and they do not have Lumens on them. I'll check the Crossville Lowe's this weekend per your suggestion. Thanks for the help/advice peeps!
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#8 ·
Alright. I'm having 0 luck finding NO bulbs. The places I have found online are out of stock for the most part. The local places only carry HO bulbs. I've tried HW stores, pet stores, and even a couple of wholesale lighting places.

I've had the fixture for over a month, so the store I bought it at is not that interested in taking it back for cred (the Critter for those who know where I'm talking about). So I need to explore other options...

Would lowering the time I have my lights on help? I currently have them on 10hrs a day using a timer, so I can easily adjust it down to 8hrs, 6, whatever. I can also remove a bulb if necessary, or raise the lights higher from the tank.

I just added ferts yesterday, so I need to give it time to find out how this will work, however I believe the popular consesus is that I am still going to have way too much light.
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#10 ·
The NO tubes will be the best solution. Plants need light of adequate intensity and duration to balance the nutrients. If the intensity is too much or too little, and depending upon how much this is out, decreasing or increasing the duration is not usually effective because the intensity and duration have to be within a fairly limited range to balance the nutrients.

As an example, having double the intensity over a tank with nutrient levels at half what is need will only encourage algae no matter how long the light is on, and the plants will not thrive. Same if the intensity is too weak, having the lights on longer does not compensate.

Once you have the NO tubes, we can help you get the nutrients in balance and you'll be fine.

Byron.
 
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#11 ·
I while back I posted this lumens ratings chart for the most popular flourescant bulbs. These are just estimates. Actual values vary by Kelvin rating and manufacturer.

48" T-5 HO 54 watts 4400-5000 lumens
48" T-5 NO 28 watts 2750 lumens
48" T-8 32 watts 2700-3000 lumens
48" T-8 40 watts 3500 lumens
48" T-12 40 watts 3000 lumens
22" CFL 65 watts 5400 lumens
 
#12 ·
I must have missed this myself, good info Bob, thanks indeed. Even though 48-inch tubes, one can get an idea of relative differences for the smaller tubes from this, so very good info.

I'm rather suprised by the lower lumens of the NO compared to the 40w T8, wouldn't have thought that much. Good to know.

Byron.
 
#14 ·
I've bookmarked it. Thanks, B.
 
#15 ·
Lumens do not apply to plants. Period.

Lumens is the amount of light seen by the human eye. It has absolutely nothing to do with plants. Our eyes peak in the green spectrum of light. Some have probably noticed at one point, 2 lightbulbs of the same wattage may have different brightness. It would seem obvious that the brighter one would be better, however that is not always the case. This is the spectrum we are able to see. Lumens again is a measure of the light visible to the human eye. Plants on the other hand reflect green light(they cannot use green light). Plants need light with peaks in the red, blue, and yellow spectrum. This is the spectrum plants can use.

In general the spectrum we see and the spectrum plants depend on is almost opposite. So, picking bulbs based on lumen value is a very poor way to choose a bulb for plant growth. It is easy to determine, a green bulb is going to have a very high lumen rating, plants however will die under green light. So if you are lighting your house it would make sense to go for a bulb with a higher lumen rating. Plants on the otherhand may perfer bulbs with lower lumen rating. This bulb may look dimmer to us, but may indeed be more efficient for the plant.

So how to choose a bulb? There are many sites that list the reported PAR efficiency of specific brands of bulbs.(here and here) PAR is a measure of the light that is usable in photosynthesis. If or when you are looking for new bulbs it is helpful to pick a bulb with a known high PAR rating. Since this is not know on most bulbs and is not list on the package of any, another way is to look a the bulbs color spectrum. Generally, the more closely to resembles the spectrum a plant uses the more efficient the bulb should be. Though this does not take in account the Kelvin rating or visual appearance. Its best to pick a bulb with a good spectrum and a ideal kelvin rating. Kelvin rating is dependent on the user though, it is whatever looks best to you.

So this is the spectrum a plant uses in general.


This is the spectrum PAR measures.

Here is the reported spectrum of your original Colormax lights, sometimes these are on the package, sometimes the internet, sometimes they don't exist (if you buy a cheap bulb).


This is my perfered bulb GE 9325K, it doesn't have a T5 version though, just PC and T8s.


This is the spectrum measured by lumen


Woot! Now I'm done, since I've probably bored you all. In the end light is very complex. If you ever bother to really go indepth with it, you will eventually figure that despite all the fancy fixtures we buy and specilized bulbs we use. Cheap spiral compacts will generally do the job just fine. They may not be as efficient, as t8's, t5, pc, ect.(depending on the bulb). Usually no spectrum, just a kelvin rating to go off of.
 
#16 ·
That's for the colormax. Here's the only one I could find for my 6700.





It looks closer to your bulb than the Colormax. The Colormax bulb I have is strictly for showing off the color in my fish. While the 6700 has an orange/yellow tint, the Colormax is more of a balanced white.
 
#17 ·
I don't disagree with you. But I would use Lumens over watts when determining the intensity of light. But when I use the lumen ratings, I'm using it to compare two similar Kelvin rated bulbs. For example, comparing a 40watt t-8 daylight bulb to a CFL 65watt daylight bulb. In this case the lumens should be a good mearure. I would not use the Lumen rating alone to choose a bulb.
 
#18 ·
With the variety of all bulbs you have these compared to a few yrs back when all pretty much was t5 you just HAVE to look at everything not just one factor, you wanna check wattage, kelvin and lumens and then go from there for the size tank you've got really. That's the same I did for my 55g when I lowered it to 32w only and then had a "daylight" and "sunlight" GE bulb and determined based of the lumens which one alone will go in there and the plants sure approve even the narrowleaf chain sword which we all thought wouldn't make it.

I really think thou in spoot's case here with the new light he has, some pennywort for some top cover now, he's all set with his plants now. Fine tune it with some ferts and all will go well from there.
 
#19 ·
So far something seems to going right. Getting some new growth on my java and african ferns, also getting cabomba growth also. I moved both of my anubias under the floating pennywort (with bonus duckweed) that Angel gave me. My NO bulbs will be in tomorrow.

Happened upon a 46 Gallon Bow this weekend also. Getting it set up and ready. I can't seem to find the GE Daylights in T8 36", and haven't seen any GE 9325 (Aqua-Rays?) at all. Still looking though. No luck at the Crossville Lowe's. Going to check here today.
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#22 ·
Happened upon a 46 Gallon Bow this weekend also. Getting it set up and ready. I can't seem to find the GE Daylights in T8 36", and haven't seen any GE 9325 (Aqua-Rays?) at all. Still looking though. No luck at the Crossville Lowe's. Going to check here today.
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I'll look around my known places here in town for a 36" daylight for ya and let you know when I find stuff!!! Why could you not have found a tank that need 4ft'ers I got plenty spare one's of them :)
Oh hey if you get a chance also check the Walmart in Cookeville for either Bright Effects, Phillips or GE Daylights ;-)

New bulbs came in today. They make my tank look much better. It doesn't seem to be flooded with light now. I can only hope the plants respond positively as well. Thanks for all of your help!
You seen how dim my 45&55 was....When I changed the 55g from 64 to only 32w I had a lil issue at first with some Cryts melting 2-3 leaves off but then that was it as far as light adjusting issues.
 
#21 ·
That's good; keep us posted. And we all love photos;-). Byron.
 
#23 ·
Ferts are definitely helping. Too early to say about the lights, but this morning I checked and I had a lot of new growth on 90% of the plants. The pennywort is really lush and is spreading, new root growth on my anubias nana, and all of my cabomba have buds where it's growing new fans.

Also had 3 tiny ramhorns. =D
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#24 ·
I would recommend to anybody, if your are having difficulties to get the proper bulbs or fixtures. Your local electrical contractor could get them for you with the different info on the spectrum of the light. They do have access to different Electrical distributors. The cost might be a bit more, but they are always a good resource.
 
#25 ·
As much as I would like to update on the plants in my 55 it wouldn't be fair to the plants. I had a bout with Ich and the salt treatment is putting a damper on things. They aren't dead, but they aren't exactly vibrant either. I think once I can go back to a normal system they will repond well enough.

As for the 36" dilemma goes, it continues. I have had zero luck finding bulbs at Lowe's, Wal-Mart, geenhouses, or even pet stores. The LFS guy will order them for me, no doubt... but man I hate paying "aquarium bulb" prices when I KNOW there has to be alternatives. I may just have to suck it up and pay out though cause I'm runnning out of options. I tried to see if Lowe's could order the GE in 36 T8 and they said they can only get T12 from GE... which seems odd.

I'm also considering just getting a dual bulb 24 inch T8 fixture. That would solve most of the problem, but seems kind of a silly route to take.
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#26 ·
I've got a flora-sun by ZooMed on order for the 46. This is more of a bandaide fix than a perma solution though. It would seem my lfs can order 36 easily enough, but man 20 a bulb is kinda rough.

So can any of you think of alternative options? Maybe retro this 36 light for CFLs per the walkthrough in the DIY? Get a dual T12 36" fixture since I can find those bulbs more readily? Also, not suprisingly, I can find T5 HO 36" bulbs cheaper than what I can order the T8s for. This is all kind of ridiculous IMO. I cannot fathom why 36" T8s are so hard to find around here.

Is a single T8 30w going to be enough for the tank even?
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#27 ·
My preference would be for a single tube that extends along all or most of the tank length, as opposed to shorter tubes in a pair. The light is more evenly distributed which obviously makes a difference on the plants under it.

So the tube itself is 36 inches, correct? DrsFoster&Smith website, which is in the US, has Zoo Med Ultra Sun 36-inch for 13.99, and Hagen's Life-Glo 2 36-inch for $17.49. These are both very good tubes, and are T8. Other sites may be less expensive than this, I only use them because of their technical data but have never ordered from them.

By the way, a T8 and T12 will fit the same fixture, the T8 tubes are better (T12's are being phased out). T5 requires different fixture, and it comes in NO [normal output which is comparable to T8 regular tube intensity] and HO [high output which is significantly more intense, about 1.5 times more than the same size NO or T8].
 
#29 ·
If memory serves me someone mentioned this quite a while back in another thread. I have used T8 and T12 in the same fixture with no problems that I could see. Maybe the fixtures have ballast that takes either? The hardware store says T8 will work in T12...I'm confused a bit.
 
#30 ·
The T12 ballast is magnetic and the T8 is usually electronic. They could work for a while but no garranty. It does not matter for the type of lamp if it is cool white, Daylight, warm white as long as you do stay with the same T12 or T8. Written on the ballast, it will tell you what type and length of lamp will work.
 
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