Lowering lights: Report - Page 4 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #31 of 51 Old 02-27-2010, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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Lee what's your wattage (assuming you use T8 there?) over what sized tank?

This is a 4ft 30watt over a 55g and its working I can tell ya that. Whenever you change out lights I'd say give it some 3 weeks to see what's gonna happen (of cause unless you exchange it for some bulb that REALLY makes for odd colors you really don't like then i'd take it out right away).

~ Life Is Too Short, Break The Rules, Forgive Quickly, Kiss Slowly, Love Truly, Laugh Uncontrollably And Never Regret Anything that Made You Smile.
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post #32 of 51 Old 02-27-2010, 11:33 AM
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I'm running 2-15W / 18" T8s (I may have said 18W earlier) over a 44g corner tank, so ~2/3W per gallon. The fixtures are parallel to each other (one in front of the other). So, wattage-wise, I may be a bit higher than your setup, Angel, but my tank is a little deeper, so it's probably close enough for comparisons.

I'm also toying with the idea of a second tank. I have room for a hex tank, and I have the option of a 35g that only has space for a single 18" T8 in the hood, or a 27g that incl. a hoot that (I think) will accept 2 x 15" (14W) fixtures. Glass covers for these seem to be rare, so I don't think I can use some other type of light. I'd prefer the larger tank (more surface area on the bottom for a few plants, and a bit shallower), but I can obviously get more light / gallon over the 27g w/ dual fixtures. The 15W over the 35g would give me a little less light (in W/gal) than your current setup.

BTW, at one point, I had a link to a good article talking about how it is more important to look at the lumens/gallon (or lux/gallon) than the 'old' W/gallon formula, which was only really applicable when talking about T12 bulbs because newer T8s and T5s can put out a lot more light / watt. I wish I can find that link again...

I guess my innuendo that 'ghoulish' may work for my decor went unnoticed...

- Lee
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post #33 of 51 Old 02-27-2010, 01:37 PM
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Nothing went un-noticed, I only just got to this thread.

The appearance in your photo is fine, that's the Aqua-Glo and Sun-Glo combo. The high red/yellow in the latter offsets the purplish hue of the former. Just remember the Aqua-Glo is 1/3 the light intensity of the same tube in full spectrum (6700K such as a Life-Glo 2). That makes quite a difference. I can't remember the lumens of the Sun-Glo, it should be higher than Aqua-Glo.

Re the brown spots, what were they? Brown algae (common in new tanks or after significant light changes) which you could wipe off with your fingers as a test, or brown rust/decay on the leaves themselves?

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #34 of 51 Old 02-27-2010, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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My (standard) 45g is 17" tall and 13" deep and there I also have 2 bulbs set side by side each 18" one sunlight & one daylight totaling 30w - So essentially I have the same lights as far as wattage over my 45 then my 55g.
So unless you notice troubles with certain plants (mainly thinking of the 1's closest to the gravel here) I see no reason why this shouldn't work well for you in the long run.


As for the 2 new possible tanks - I'd get both but I'm a addict so...
A single Daylight or Ultimate daylight (thinking GE here) T8 that's 15-20W (dep on size it'll take) IMO is fully sufficient for a 30-35g planted.
Now for the smaller 27g I'd personally also only get one T8 on it; unless you can find 2 lower wattage one's for the needed size there but putting some 30-35watts over i is a bit much IMO. Or is you do it balance it well with weekly liquid ferts.


As for the lumens/ lux discussion read here what had initially lead me up to this thread here and its experiment after I calculated it all through http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...g-36847/page3/

Its pretty simple back in the weee old days you had T5 bulbs and that was pretty much it then came High output bulbs and CFLs and all that stuff so while they're using wayyyy less watts these days the manufactures have achieved to maintain and even up the lights that's given off. So when you look at todays T8 bulbs if you have something in the ranges of 0.7-1.2wpg on them over your tank you're set for plants (from my exp rather the lower range). But then if you look at the high tech lil twisted screw in CFLs you already can't even apply that any more; so IMO going fwd the next several yrs in fish tanks I think people will evaluate much more based of Lumens & kelvin then anything else.

~ Life Is Too Short, Break The Rules, Forgive Quickly, Kiss Slowly, Love Truly, Laugh Uncontrollably And Never Regret Anything that Made You Smile.
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post #35 of 51 Old 02-27-2010, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
Nothing went un-noticed, I only just got to this thread.?
That was dirrected at the general poplulace, not you, Bryon. I know nothing gets by you!
I guess I'm just not as witty as I thought...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
The appearance in your photo is fine, that's the Aqua-Glo and Sun-Glo combo. The high red/yellow in the latter offsets the purplish hue of the former. Just remember the Aqua-Glo is 1/3 the light intensity of the same tube in full spectrum (6700K such as a Life-Glo 2). That makes quite a difference. I can't remember the lumens of the Sun-Glo, it should be higher than Aqua-Glo.?
Yes, the (advertised) lumens are 840 for the Sun-Glo, but only 290 for the Aqua-Glo. IIRC, the Life-Glo had a similar Lumen rating to the Sun-Glo (~800), but with a higher temp (6700k vs. 4200k). I compared the spectrum graphs from both and figured together they covered the spectrum pretty well, and at one point I did the math based on lumens (like in Angel's other thread) and somehow figured out that the total 1130 for the 2 bulbs was 'within spec'. Maybe if I get that second tank, I'll try the Life-Glo as a single bulb, and maybe see how it looks in combo with the Sun-Glo over my current tank, but for now, I think I'm going to stick with the Sun-Glo/Aqua-Glo combo and see how it goes.

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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
Re the brown spots, what were they? Brown algae (common in new tanks or after significant light changes) which you could wipe off with your fingers as a test, or brown rust/decay on the leaves themselves?
On the Amazon Swords, it could be algea, but can't get my arm in deep enough to see if it wipes off without overflowing the tank (I wish I read your post prior to doing the WC). On the other plants, some of the leaves seem to have died, but only some leaves on each. Other leaves seem to be doing great. I.e., in the Giant Hairgrass, only some 'blades' turned brown, and the Banana plants original leaves are browning, but new leaves and shoots are sprouting. The Crypts didn't seem to like it, though...the one that was doing pretty well melted after the swapping the Aqua-Glo for the generic full daylight.

@Angel - Your just trying to talk me into the larger tank, aren't you? (Actually, that works for me...there's a 35g hex on CL within about 1 1/2 hr. drive that I can probably get for <1/2 the price of a new one.) And, now I'm thinking (because I need a new couch anyway), if I get a smaller couch, I can probably put a good-sized tank against the wall directly behind the couch....maybe a 125g (72"x18"x22")! The 125 even comes w/ a cherrywood mission-style cabinet that would match the cabinets in the kitchen perfectly! Ugh...this fish thing is getting expensive!

- Lee
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post #36 of 51 Old 02-27-2010, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
On the Amazon Swords, it could be algea, but can't get my arm in deep enough to see if it wipes off without overflowing the tank (I wish I read your post prior to doing the WC). On the other plants, some of the leaves seem to have died, but only some leaves on each. Other leaves seem to be doing great. I.e., in the Giant Hairgrass, only some 'blades' turned brown, and the Banana plants original leaves are browning, but new leaves and shoots are sprouting. The Crypts didn't seem to like it, though...the one that was doing pretty well melted after the swapping the Aqua-Glo for the generic full daylight.
Can you post photos of the browning leaves? And of the entire plant in the case of a sword? If I see it I will probably be able to advise better.

Crypts do often melt with any change, just leave the roots, new leaves will probably emerge within days or perhaps weeks.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #37 of 51 Old 02-27-2010, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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+1 on the picture request cause this may well not be algae but the plant/ leaf showing lack of nutrition and therefore having brown spots.

As for lumens & kelvin so far I had found it works best if you have the higher lumens and the kelvins around 6500K rather then certain lights that also have 6500k but like half the lumens.

~ Life Is Too Short, Break The Rules, Forgive Quickly, Kiss Slowly, Love Truly, Laugh Uncontrollably And Never Regret Anything that Made You Smile.
Life May Not Be The Party We Hoped For, But While We're Here, We Should Dance. ~
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post #38 of 51 Old 02-28-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
As for lumens & kelvin so far I had found it works best if you have the higher lumens and the kelvins around 6500K rather then certain lights that also have 6500k but like half the lumens.
This makes perfect sense. The K is the colour temperature, and important because plants need the red and blue, and the green provides a natural colour rendition for us. But the intensity of that light is also important, and that is the lumens. Providing the right colour of light won't do much if it is too weak, or conversely if too strong.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #39 of 51 Old 02-28-2010, 10:52 AM
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How does the color (in Kelvin) relate to the spectrum of the bulb?

I'm looking at the boxes for the 2 bulbs I have (one rated at 4200K, one at 18,000K) and there's a little spectrum graph on the box. The graphs are different, but the wavelenghts both taper off to near 0 around 780nm.

I guess maybe my question is how does the 'temperature' of the bulb relate to the wavelength (I thought that they were the same until I looked closer at the graphs...)? And, is it more important for plants to have a certain temperature of light, or certain wavelenghts?

- Lee
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post #40 of 51 Old 02-28-2010, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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Like Byron just said above the plants ideally need a mixture of lil red higher in blues and some green to balance. That ideal mixture is found in bulbs rated between 5-6500 kelvin. The lower one's are more a yellow-red light if you looked at them while as the far higher one's are more a cold bright blue only.

~ Life Is Too Short, Break The Rules, Forgive Quickly, Kiss Slowly, Love Truly, Laugh Uncontrollably And Never Regret Anything that Made You Smile.
Life May Not Be The Party We Hoped For, But While We're Here, We Should Dance. ~
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