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just picked up a few new plants

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just picked up a few new plants
Old 03-18-2013, 10:24 PM   #11
 
If the stems start to rot, it helps to trim just above the rotting part and replant the healthy clipping.

Hmm, I didn't know that about the creeping charlie. Have you read any advice on whether or not trimming it in the water is safe or does it need to be removed for trimming?
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:38 PM   #12
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creeping charlie smells nice ^_^

I have high light (23w cfl) on my 1 gallon. by that I mean the light bulb is as close to tank as possible without hitting the water. that's a lot of light! having a thick mat of azolla has greatly cut down the light, but I used to have the top floater free.

There are a few basic conditions under which algae will grow. without one of these, algae will not grow in a tank.

1- you have have seeded the algae from else where, plants you bought etc.
2- when the tank is the optimal place for algae growth in the same body of water.
3- there must be light

so really to get rid of algae you must prevent one of these.

no.1 is insanely hard to control
and you really cant do without no. 3 in a planted tank....

so what I do is to direct reallly bright light at my hob so that the hob becomes the optimal place for algae growth. that way, algae doesn't grow in the actual tank. you can use this method on a sump or a hob, it will keep your tank free from most kinds of algae....

avoid plants that have been infested with the worser types of algae... like BBA or staghorn... those can be a pain to rid.
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Last edited by ao; 03-19-2013 at 03:40 PM..
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:45 PM   #13
 
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chresika and i have been pming about the selection, she wasnt able to copme up with anything from her books that backed the toxicity of the creeping charlie but ill probobly trim out of the tank as i can sit down at a table and do all the plants at the same time instead of hovering over my tank at a awkward posture. so i think i may be ok with my light and fert, but of course im worried about the co2 im not wanting to inject it, are there any good ways to introduce it besides fish load?
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:57 PM   #14
 
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I've no knowledge concerning the Creeping Charlie being toxic.

I agree with those who have advocated a balance being essential. In this situation described, CO2 will be the factor with the higher light, as the other nutrients are easily added via fertilizers.

Remember that plants will always photosynthesize to the max when everything is available. This is why they grow faster in higher light/diffused CO2/daily nutrient dosing in high tech systems. For those of us with low-tech or what I prefer calling "natural" method planted tanks, the one factor over which we have the least control is carbon, as CO2. Light must be the limiting factor to plant growth, or algae will take advantage because it is not as demanding of CO2 and nutrients as are plants.

Stem plants, especially those listed, are fast growing by nature so they require higher light and more nutrients including the CO2 in balance. Sometimes you can adjust the duration to achieve a relative balance; but just remember that the brighter light will drive photosynthesis more, thus requiring a higher balance level. In other words, if I have a tank that is now balanced, and I decide to increase the light either in intensity or duration, without increasing any nutrients, I will almost be assured of having an increase in algae because the light will exceed what the plants can utilize. This can occur very quickly. I have obtained a balance with 8 hours of tank lighting. Every summer, algae increases; it took me a bit of analysis to realize that this was solely due to the increase in the amount and duration of daylight entering the room, and this was sufficient to "up" the light which was advantageous to the algae but not the plants because the nutrients were still at the lower level of balance. For the past two summers, keeping the windows heavily covered has kept the 8-hour balance, and I no longer see algae increasing.

Most sources advise trying various plants, and when some fail, take note and forget them, and stay with what works. Each tank can be very different. Allelopathy likely enters into this too, but this is an area that is not all that well understood.

Byron.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
...

Most sources advise trying various plants, and when some fail, take note and forget them, and stay with what works. Each tank can be very different. Allelopathy likely enters into this too, but this is an area that is not all that well understood.

Byron.
Yes, lots of variety can be a benefit for a good number of reasons except that you don't necessarily know which plants are doing what in the water unless you do some testing and allow time between additions. I think it best to start out with a variety right away, particularly if you are concerned about having the plants look after the ammonia. It would be a shame to try lots of one plant only to have them fail. I am now up to 16 varieties of plants and have plans for a few more yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyMitch View Post
...so i think i may be ok with my light and fert, but of course im worried about the co2 im not wanting to inject it, are there any good ways to introduce it besides fish load?
Mitch... you are always so pro-CO2 that I am surprised at this turn.

Watch your water hardness and see if it starts going down, specifically KH as GH will not drop as fast if this is happening. That can be an indicator that you may want to consider adding carbon supplementation. If your plants are doing well (which can be anything from just staying green to growing like bad weeds) and you have little to no algae growth then all is happy. Mine dropped substantially following each water change when I had only a few fish. Now that I am up to roughly my tank bio-capacity the KH remains more stable. I'd like it to continue to soften the water.

I'm working on a few ideas to get around the CO2 method. As much as people say it's easy it's just one more thing to have to fiddle with and an extra cost.

Jeff.
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:07 PM   #16
 
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lol yea, once mikilah enlightend me on all of the proper equipment for a c02 system i looked everything up and priced it. gave the list to the wife and about got slapped, thus my change of plans for now anyways..... gotta let the sting of the 150$ light system go away a bit before i ask for more equipment lol.

as far as the kh goes ive been following your thread on ur small scale jug, the plants can use the supplemnts that make up kh but it takes them much more energy if my homework is right since they have to convert their source of carbon what like twice before they can absorb it not to menbtion its a much slower pace. been so long since ive had a true planted aquarium and now that this one is underway i swear i forgoet more then i knew, and if i comprehend correctly light is the easyiest way to find balance while keeping growth and keeping algae down. but i dont want to go down to only like 5-8 hrs a day as my daughter really enjoys the tank and hates when the lights are off. so i was looking into the cheaper method of co2 which was the liquid co2. ive came across a few posts about a ingredent used for sterilzation that seems to be in both excel and apis co2 booster. any thoughts? it would be a much better option to bring a 15$ purchase request to the wife then a 200+ one. just lookign for a backup plan or plan b if you will

Forgot to add, only been like 2 days and i have new growth on the moneywart and ambulia and the creeping charlie, the temple plant still isnt doing anythign, anything i can notice anyways. the stems all have atelast 3-5 new leafs and are putting out new nodes or on the way to anyways. oh and heres a pic of it semi scaped, some plants were left floating as i was gunna float some and plaant others and compare.


Last edited by MoneyMitch; 03-20-2013 at 03:21 PM..
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:09 PM   #17
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Yah, price, complexity, monitoring.... from what I see, generally, just one of those three factors will eliminate CO2 from most aquarium keepers. I don't mind any of them myself and would do it but I feel it is not only those factors but that it is unnecessary... proper plant selection for your lighting conditions can probably accommodate the vast majority of situations.

I am running 14 hours of light each day... sometimes a bit more for the very reason that you state... not only my daughter likes to see the fish but both my wife and I do as well. It's in the living room which is an open concept space so it is a focal point. I should have went with a bigger tank now that I think about it.

Jeff.
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:08 PM   #18
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JDM, what are you trying to grow with CO2?

I dont use CO2, and the only plants I can't grow, or havent tried growing is elatine triandra, erios, downoi etc. I have found high light alone to be sufficient in growing most aquarium plants...

I've done dwarf hair grass belem carpets, microsword carpets, HM carpet... grow staurogen repens (although it doesnt really carpet in lower light) and whatever else in mid to highlight tanks.
I've also grown didiplis diandra in a super low light tank. I was even doing rotala macrandra before i decided it was too big for my pico tank and gave it away.

Most plants will do well if you use the DSM and provide good lighting...
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:19 PM   #19
 
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Quote:
as far as the kh goes ive been following your thread on ur small scale jug, the plants can use the supplemnts that make up kh but it takes them much more energy if my homework is right since they have to convert their source of carbon what like twice before they can absorb it not to menbtion its a much slower pace.
Alkalinity (bicarbonates) is one carbon reservoir/source for some plants. When this applies, plants use the bicarbonates and the Alkalinity lowers during the day, while during darkness the increased CO2 replenishes the bicarbonates and the Alkalinity rises.

Because bicarbonates are more abundant in basic (alkaline) water, plants in alkaline waters have an advantage for carbon uptake. Examples are Vallisneria, Egeria, Elodea, to name a couple. There are several plant species that cannot use bicarbonates: mosses, Ceratopteris, Echinodorus and Helanthium, Ludwigia, Nuphar lutea, Riccia and some others. Not surprisingly, these are soft water plants so one may assume they were never designed for bicarbonate use because bicarbonates were non-existent in such environments.

According to Walstad, plants that can use either prefer CO2 to bicarbonates 10 to 1, and exactly for the reason you mention, extra work to convert it. And overall, algae is much more efficient at using bicarbonates than plants--which probably is why algae is usually more prevalent in hard water/alkaline tanks than in soft water, all else being equal.

Quote:
if i comprehend correctly light is the easyiest way to find balance while keeping growth and keeping algae down. but i dont want to go down to only like 5-8 hrs a day as my daughter really enjoys the tank and hates when the lights are off.
Yes, light should always be the limiting fac tor to plant growth. This will then prevent nuisance algae. However, the balance level depends upon all the factors and thus is not the same in every tank. I used to run my tank lights 17 hours a day, from 7 am to 10 pm, and had no algae issues. Now I have found 8 hours to be the limit. Same type of light.

Quote:
so i was looking into the cheaper method of co2 which was the liquid co2. ive came across a few posts about a ingredent used for sterilzation that seems to be in both excel and apis co2 booster. any thoughts?
It would be foolish for me to say that Excel and API CO2 Booster will kill fish; those who use these products do not have fish dying. But, it is not a chemical I would add to a fish tank. I can safely use conditioners, plant nutrient fertilizers, etc, with no real worries provided I don't overdose. But if I spill these on my skin I do not get an irritation as I would with Excel or CO2 Booster. And inhaling the fumes will not irritate my lungs. Not that I would, but the point is that Excel and CO2 Booster contain glutaraldehyde (and water) and this product is hazardous to one's health, highly so according to the fact sheet you can see (for the API product) here:
http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/ms...ter_081810.pdf

Any chemical strong enough to be used as a disinfectant for medial instruments in hospitals, in embalming fluid to kill bacteria, in antifreeze, and in ship ballasts to kill pathogens has no place in an aquarium. At least, in my humble opinion, which is not shared by everyone.

Byron.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:13 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by aokashi View Post
JDM, what are you trying to grow with CO2?

I dont use CO2, and the only plants I can't grow, or havent tried growing is elatine triandra, erios, downoi etc. I have found high light alone to be sufficient in growing most aquarium plants...

I've done dwarf hair grass belem carpets, microsword carpets, HM carpet... grow staurogen repens (although it doesnt really carpet in lower light) and whatever else in mid to highlight tanks.
I've also grown didiplis diandra in a super low light tank. I was even doing rotala macrandra before i decided it was too big for my pico tank and gave it away.

Most plants will do well if you use the DSM and provide good lighting...
Nothing... Not sure how you got that I was going to try it.... what ever I might have mentioned was only aimed at the fact that, if I thought it would be a benefit, I would not be opposed to the cost, complexity or monitoring.

I'm only selecting plants that will or may be ok in moderate light and no CO2. I don't mind failures, so I might push it, but I've only really had one so far, Cabomba something-or-other and I really like the lower light plants anyway. I'm going to look at a a bunch of crypts this weekend to help out with my catfish... all low light obviously.

DSM, not going there.

Jeff.
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