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Iron addition for heavy planted tank

This is a discussion on Iron addition for heavy planted tank within the Beginner Planted Aquarium forums, part of the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium category; --> Redchigh is correct, once you start increasing one nutrient or light, all the others need increasing as well. As I frequently write, it has ...

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Iron addition for heavy planted tank
Old 10-06-2010, 08:07 PM   #11
 
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Redchigh is correct, once you start increasing one nutrient or light, all the others need increasing as well. As I frequently write, it has to be balanced.

I have a low-tech natural system, and the CO2, phosphorus and nitrogen come from the fish and waste. But if I doubled the light, it would do no good; or added CO2, useless. Unless I increased all the other nutrients. Which only makes sense; if the plants are utilizing these nutrients completely now, where will they come from if I increase the light? It doesn't matter what type of system you want, there must be a balance and the plants will not photosynthesize beyond the limiting factor.

I don't follow the cycling comment; if there are live plants, just put in some fish. Plants use the ammonia/ammonium as their preferred source of nitrogen so there will be no "cycle" to speak of. Bacteria will still appear, but it will be minimal by comparison to non-plant tanks.

Be careful with that iron thing. Iron is a heavy metal, and all heavy metals are highly toxic to all life, be it fish, plants, humans, micro-organisms, whatever. Iron is only a micro-nutrient for plants, not a macro; they don't need all that much. And years ago I got on the iron kick too, and nearly killed my plants because I didn't understand that iron was no more essential than the 16 other nutrients. We live and learn.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:03 AM   #12
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
Redchigh is correct, once you start increasing one nutrient or light, all the others need increasing as well. As I frequently write, it has to be balanced.

I have a low-tech natural system, and the CO2, phosphorus and nitrogen come from the fish and waste. But if I doubled the light, it would do no good; or added CO2, useless. Unless I increased all the other nutrients. Which only makes sense; if the plants are utilizing these nutrients completely now, where will they come from if I increase the light? It doesn't matter what type of system you want, there must be a balance and the plants will not photosynthesize beyond the limiting factor.

I don't follow the cycling comment; if there are live plants, just put in some fish. Plants use the ammonia/ammonium as their preferred source of nitrogen so there will be no "cycle" to speak of. Bacteria will still appear, but it will be minimal by comparison to non-plant tanks.

Be careful with that iron thing. Iron is a heavy metal, and all heavy metals are highly toxic to all life, be it fish, plants, humans, micro-organisms, whatever. Iron is only a micro-nutrient for plants, not a macro; they don't need all that much. And years ago I got on the iron kick too, and nearly killed my plants because I didn't understand that iron was no more essential than the 16 other nutrients. We live and learn.
Hi Byron,

thanks for your explanation. So in your opinion i need to dose an extra Seachem flourish? Right now i only dose the normal weekly. I shall not include iron. As for fish i need to add extra then.

Right now the tank has a lot of brown algae. I read that this is when the tank is new.

Also regarding PH - KH - CO2

So my water change will have PH of 7, KH of 3. PH controller is set for 6.8 PH. Should I lower the PH from controller to 6.6 to have some more CO2?

Thanks
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:33 PM   #13
 
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Let me see if I can re-word what was said.

Most of us here, use the low-tech method, with flourish comprehensive. Comprehensive works well in the low tech (and low light/CO2 from fishes only) because it's enough of all the nutrients to balance with the nutrients that come out of the fish and fish food. If you raise light and CO2, you will definately need to dose flourish more often, but flourish alone will probably not be enough. (Since it has less of the nutrients that come directly from the fish.)

As for which nutrients come from fish and fish food, and you may be lacking with only flourish comprehensive:

Macronutrients:
Nitrogen
Phosphorus
Potassium

Micro nutrients:
Iron (Through flourish Iron)
Magnesium (Through Flourish Trace)

Don't ask me how much specifically, but I know for a fact that all of these are in fish food and fish waste. Might take a while for a deficiency to pop up, but it probably will eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flourish web site at http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html
Flourish™ is designed to be used in conjunction with other macro and micro-nutrient supplements.
As for the CO2.. (I did a bit of research back when I thought high tech was the only way to have a tank full of plants) Aim for a ph reduction of .2 if your water ph is close to 7.
More importantly is the ppm- You want between 15-20 ppm of CO2. Err on the side of caution, since the ideal amount is really close to the deadly level- 25-30ppm. There are lots of charts, but your best bet would be to find someone with your same water params and match their bubbles per second (with a bubble counter.)

This is why I went with low tech. :P

Last edited by redchigh; 10-07-2010 at 02:40 PM..
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:13 PM   #14
 
and with low tech you have a tank full of plants?
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:32 PM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by migdem View Post
and with low tech you have a tank full of plants?
Yes. Have you looked at the many photos in my Aquarium Log? I have had tanks like these for 20 years based on the methods I write about. And understand, this is only one of several methods to have planted tanks. But it is the easiest, the least expensive, and it works.

Plant growth will vary according to the method. More light and more nutrients (in blanace) will (or should) mean faster growth. But in low-tech the plants will still grow, and be healthy, and do the job of water filtration. Some plants do not do so well in low tech; this is mentioned in the profiles where relevant. But the vast majority of aquarium plants will remain alive in any tank--provided the light and nutrients they need are available.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:40 PM   #16
 
can you give me a link where i can find these?

Also returning on my system so in your idea i should add more ferts?

Also Right now i have some algae issues. So lots of brown algae (guess because it is a new tank right?)
i also have like spots of brown algae on the top layer of the water. If I scoop it with net it seems to be brownish/greenish algae. What could it be? How can I eleminate it?

Also on driftwood i have some strings of algae like sewing treads. I can remove it manually but is there something wrong so that i can arrange and not have any more?

Thanks
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:57 PM   #17
 
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Quote:
can you give me a link where i can find these?
If you mean my photos, they are under the tab "My Aquariums" just below my user name on the left.

Quote:
Also returning on my system so in your idea i should add more ferts?
If you are running CO2 and have higher light, I think you will need more. The plants will tell you, and perhaps moreso algae will proliferate.

Quote:
Also Right now i have some algae issues. So lots of brown algae (guess because it is a new tank right?)
i also have like spots of brown algae on the top layer of the water. If I scoop it with net it seems to be brownish/greenish algae. What could it be? How can I eleminate it?
Diatoms (brown algae) is common in new tanks,usually during the first 3 months. Remove it from plant leaves (it comes off with your fingers, some "algae" fish eat it but I don't recommend buying fish just for this). The floating "scum" is a protein scum, it can be in a sheet or spots here and there. Not an issue, I syphone it out during water changes in tanks where it occurs. it seems more prevalent in some tanks and never in others. Has to do with organics and nutrients I expect.

Quote:
Also on driftwood i have some strings of algae like sewing treads. I can remove it manually but is there something wrong so that i can arrange and not have any more?
Brush algae and hair algae will appear on wood and rock; Ileve it as it is natural. When it starts attacking plant leaves, I monitor it closely; too much light and it will proliferate. Algae is natural, it will always be present, but we aim to keep it in check. On plant leaves it works to prevent the exchange of gasses which is detrimental to the plant.
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:02 PM   #18
 
Ok so best is to add a dosage of extra seachem flourish weekly so that i ferts twice a week.

I want the link of methods to do a low tech fully planted please.

thanks
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:07 PM   #19
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by migdem View Post
Ok so best is to add a dosage of extra seachem flourish weekly so that i ferts twice a week.

I want the link of methods to do a low tech fully planted please.

thanks
The article series "A Basic Approach to the Natural Planted Aquarium" is at the head of this section of the forum, there are 4 parts due to text limitations in each post. They lead from one to the other.
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:08 PM   #20
 
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They're right at the top of the aquarium forum. Byron took the time to write some immensely helpful guides that nearly all of us have read- some of us multiple times.


"Sticky: A Basic Approach to the Natural Planted Aquarium--Part One "
(then read the rest of them.)

Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...#ixzz11i2iQG00

Could also look into soil substrates as well for future tanks. (my signature)

And as for tanks full of plants... Well, I do. My soil substrate one I'm working on now will be my masterpiece. (The others were practice. ;) )

EDIT- Aw, Byron! You beat me by seconds!

Last edited by redchigh; 10-07-2010 at 04:11 PM..
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