got my plants in! after planting, huge Nitr spike! HELP
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got my plants in! after planting, huge Nitr spike! HELP

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got my plants in! after planting, huge Nitr spike! HELP
Old 03-04-2010, 07:09 PM   #1
 
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got my plants in! after planting, huge Nitr spike! HELP

Alright. I got my exitement out of my system.

I was hoping it would be enough to heavily plant a 5G with a couple extra stems for a 10G.
Instead, I heavily planted a 10G and moderately heavily planted a 5G :)

The 5G is the one I mentioned in a couple other posts... soil/gravel substrate.
I added a few guppies for CO2, although now I'm thinking it was unneccesary. should I leave them in, or take them out?
(approx 4.5 inches of fish in the 5G, no filter, no light, sunny location.)
I do have a heater.

I ended up getting:
12 Malaysian snails (looked dead, but remembered they might just be hiding. put 6 in the 5G and 6 in the guppy tank)
3 Ramshorn Snails (put 1 in 10G guppy, two in 5G)
Rotala Indica (tiny sprig in 5G, rest in 10G guppy))
Stargrass (put in 10G guppy since it has more light)
Ludwigea Natans (I think a couple stems in the 5G, the rest in the 10G)
Anacharis (3 stems in 5G, the rest in 10G)
Water Wisteria (1 stem in 5g, the rest in 10G)
Hornwort (a small handful in both tanks)
Shinnersia Rivularis (2 stems in 5G, the rest in 10G guppy)
Dwarf Sag (in 5G)
Corkscrew Val (1 plant in each tank)
Amazon Sword (placed in my 10G Cichlid fry tank)
Green Cabomba (1 stem in 5G and the rest in 10G guppy)

I'll post pictures when I can, but I'm going to wait and make sure I don't kill them.
The 10G guppy has 20W full spectrum, the 10G cichlid has 23W cool white, the 5G has indirect filtered sunlight.

(I changed my mind about putting it all in the 5G because I'm scared it might crash, since it's a new setup and I've never used soil.)

How many snails should I put in each tank if I WANT them to breed? (My goal is to have approx 20 in every tank... It's impossible for me to count every guppy, and I've never found a dead guppy fry. but I'm sure I don't have a 100% survival rate, so I need some good scavengers.)


What's a good foreground plant that stays tiny? The dwarf sag is a decent midground plant in the 5G, but I still need a foreground plant for it... Is there anything tiny enough? (preferably something I can buy from Sweet Aquatics so I can get more free snails)
Is 5 inches of guppy in a planted non-filtered 5G too much fish? If so, when do I need to remove them? I'd like to get ghost shrimps on friday.
Should I acclimate snails? I probably should have... but I didn't. They're beginning to move around now. :)
I also have a tiny tiny bit of duckweed in the cichlid and the 5G. (they are both open-topped)

-----------UPDATE!!!!!------------


My Water Parameters are:
10G Guppy:
PH 6.5 (I know, I can't seem to raise it, I've given up. The guppies seem fine.)
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate Unknown (out of test stuff a while back)
GH 26
KH 4

10G Cichlid Fry
PH: 6.9 (Ironic- this one has driftwood and should be softer)
Gh 12
Kh 1
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0

5G Soil Substrate (Uh oh)
PH 6.5
GH 12
Kh 1
Nitrite 1.6mg/L
Ammonia 1.5mg/L

Now I know there aren't any ferts in the soil. My best guess is that the ammonia is from organic material in the soil decomposing.
The question is, should I put the snails in the Guppy tank or Cichlid tank until ammonia is lower?
(scratch that- I already did.)

I'm worried that I can't find all the gups I put in... but I'm more worried about the snails. I have guppies out the wazoo, one or two dead isn't going to make me lose sleep, but I want to save all the snails I can.
(odd isn't it?)

should I put a light over the plant tank to encourage them to consume the nitrite and ammonia?
Can I assume the Ammonia is Ammonium since the ph is under 7?

I'm doing pwc once a day... can't do more since I work. Should I most more plants to the 10G, or put more in the 5G?
The sword wouldn't effect the nitrite levels since the nitrite is dissolved in the water, right?
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:41 PM   #2
 
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You call I run
No neither NO's nor Ammonia will 'kill' a plant!!!! What will hurt them is no lights so turn on the tank lights and set them to about 10hrs/day! As you rightly said about ferts burning plants yes indeed too much can do harm there that's why most suggest dosing 1x week only Also too much or too lil CO2 (eg excess CO2 driven in by co2 machines) will harm.
I'm not worried at all about your plants because of the readings, only worry is you give them lights, which is a quick fix.
High Ammonia or NO's can however be deadly to your fish, mainly looking at your fry here. So if you can not get these numbers lowered with the pwc you're doing you have got to do larger pwc at night when you get of work, if you have to do some 60-80% w/c there until this is in check so you will not wind up loosing your fish there!

Hope that was speedy enough after the request and helpful too; will check on you again in the AM good night
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:56 PM   #3
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel079 View Post
You call I run
No neither NO's nor Ammonia will 'kill' a plant!!!! What will hurt them is no lights so turn on the tank lights and set them to about 10hrs/day! As you rightly said about ferts burning plants yes indeed too much can do harm there that's why most suggest dosing 1x week only Also too much or too lil CO2 (eg excess CO2 driven in by co2 machines) will harm.
I'm not worried at all about your plants because of the readings, only worry is you give them lights, which is a quick fix.
High Ammonia or NO's can however be deadly to your fish, mainly looking at your fry here. So if you can not get these numbers lowered with the pwc you're doing you have got to do larger pwc at night when you get of work, if you have to do some 60-80% w/c there until this is in check so you will not wind up loosing your fish there!

Hope that was speedy enough after the request and helpful too; will check on you again in the AM good night
Thanks.
I was just worried my plants would be mush when I woke up...
probably a totally unrealistic fear, just worried since I've never had any of these plants before and they're beautiful. :)

I'll go out and buy a small CFL for the tank tomorrow... (All I have laying around are 23W that I use for seedlings... works wonderfully for basil parsley and chives in my cabinet too.

I'd like to apologize to you and Byron (I harassed both of you...) I'm sure you both would have made it here tomorrow anyway.


Another question for whoever stops by-
Where should I place the heater? There's 0 water movement...
There's not a single clear spot along the back wall.
Will the heater burn a plant that's touching it? It may be another unbiased fear...
(If it won't burn hornwort, then I have space for it)

And as far as the light... I was hoping diffused sunlight would be enough...
but I guess with soil substrate producing CO2 and full of natural "fert" elements, I could definately use more light.

Last edited by redchigh; 03-04-2010 at 10:59 PM..
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:05 PM   #4
 
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Hey first time getting planted we're here to help I can only speak for myself but I surly do not feel harassed at all when I can help a fish tank friend along during the first steps of getting planted

When you go out to Lowes, Walmart whatever your best bet is Bright effects or GE bulbs and then the daylight one's (daylights are at 6500K the best for tank plants- and your house plants on a side note lol) On the new CFL specially the lil twisted screw in one's DEFIANTLY get something that's gonna equal far less then 1 watt per gallon; which is difficult on the small tanks (10g or smaller) cause often the lowest you will find is 14w but I just set my lights on a timer with 5hrs on 4 off 5 on and that works wonders on my plants

I'd just stuff the heater in any corner that won't bother your eyes. I have plants that are not just close by the heater but actually grown around (like a vine almost) around my heaters no burning on these plants. But for safety you can just pull the plants a lil more towards the front of your tank and create a lil 1x1" space in the back of the tank somewhere to place the heater
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:32 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel079 View Post
Hey first time getting planted we're here to help I can only speak for myself but I surly do not feel harassed at all when I can help a fish tank friend along during the first steps of getting planted

When you go out to Lowes, Walmart whatever your best bet is Bright effects or GE bulbs and then the daylight one's (daylights are at 6500K the best for tank plants- and your house plants on a side note lol) On the new CFL specially the lil twisted screw in one's DEFIANTLY get something that's gonna equal far less then 1 watt per gallon; which is difficult on the small tanks (10g or smaller) cause often the lowest you will find is 14w but I just set my lights on a timer with 5hrs on 4 off 5 on and that works wonders on my plants

I'd just stuff the heater in any corner that won't bother your eyes. I have plants that are not just close by the heater but actually grown around (like a vine almost) around my heaters no burning on these plants. But for safety you can just pull the plants a lil more towards the front of your tank and create a lil 1x1" space in the back of the tank somewhere to place the heater
I'm pretty sure I can find an 8W spiral cool white 6500k.
(Its what I was going to look for)

If I plant a stem plant too deep... i know the bottom tip can rot. will the rot spread up the entire plant, or just to the certain depth it should have been planted at to begin with?

PS- thought you were going to bed. :)
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:57 AM   #6
 
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Good morning I have my stem plants in the gravel anywhere's from 1-2" deep in there no problem. Diff plants built different kins roots period. But a lot times you will find they built roots under the gravel surface and then a few white colored roots along the stem.
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Old 03-05-2010, 08:07 AM   #7
 
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good morning. :)

I noticed (roots from the stem), and none of them are over 2in deep.

I realised a mistake I made-
I removed all the MTS and put them in my other tanks.
somehow forgot, that I'll probably never see them again...

Do you think diffused sunlight would be enough? Or should I buy a small CFL?

All the stems are already at, or within in inch of the water surface. Should I go ahead and cut them in half?
(don't wanna cut less than half since many don't have leaves on the bottom 1/3-1/4 of stem)

I just had my hand in the water and now my hand STINKS. Not garbage though, but like... a pet shop aquarium. It's the ammonia I'm sure.
(It's not like garbage or anything... just an unpleasant odor... like the smell when you're cleaning an aquarium filter)

I'm still not sure if the NO's and NH's are toxis to MTS or not. I see one I missed yesterday. Should I take it out?

Last edited by redchigh; 03-05-2010 at 08:12 AM..
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Old 03-05-2010, 08:30 AM   #8
 
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You'd actually be best up distributing your MTS's amongst all your tanks. Just toss a slice of cucumber on a fork in the tank at night and take the cucumber with some snails out int he AM hours and re-house them amongst your other tanks

On some low light plants like a Java Fern if the tank sits right by the window this may work; many other plants it won't. If you can find some lil desk lamp or alike in your house and screw a CFL daylight into it and put it over the tank that'd def be the preferred solution for a wide verity of plants.
Also you can check thrift stores in your area for super inexpensive light fixtures you can lay on top of your tank

Which ever length you personally prefer in your tank for you plants!!! My Ludwigia for example I (try to) keep trimmed so it angles down being higher plants in the rear and getting shorter as you get to the front of the tank; so whatever size you like trim them Just make sure if you trim the clipping you replant in to the gravel are about 2"+ long they seem to take better that way rather then super short clippings

For all your inhabits there I'd try (with w/c) to keep the Ammonia anything less then 1 and NO2 less then 0.5 and NO3 less then 50. Higher reading will not hurt your plants but as I said harm/ kill fish and same with snails.
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Old 03-05-2010, 08:43 AM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel079 View Post
You'd actually be best up distributing your MTS's amongst all your tanks. Just toss a slice of cucumber on a fork in the tank at night and take the cucumber with some snails out int he AM hours and re-house them amongst your other tanks

On some low light plants like a Java Fern if the tank sits right by the window this may work; many other plants it won't. If you can find some lil desk lamp or alike in your house and screw a CFL daylight into it and put it over the tank that'd def be the preferred solution for a wide verity of plants.
Also you can check thrift stores in your area for super inexpensive light fixtures you can lay on top of your tank

Which ever length you personally prefer in your tank for you plants!!! My Ludwigia for example I (try to) keep trimmed so it angles down being higher plants in the rear and getting shorter as you get to the front of the tank; so whatever size you like trim them Just make sure if you trim the clipping you replant in to the gravel are about 2"+ long they seem to take better that way rather then super short clippings

For all your inhabits there I'd try (with w/c) to keep the Ammonia anything less then 1 and NO2 less then 0.5 and NO3 less then 50. Higher reading will not hurt your plants but as I said harm/ kill fish and same with snails.
Well since ammonia nitrite won't harm the plants.. and I got all the gups and most of the snails out... how about I don't do WCs, and monitor the ammonia once every 1-2 days.
I can test the ammonia reduction under different lighting and post it here. :)
I only got about 12 MTS, so I was going to put them all in my other two tanks, and when ammonia is 0 I'll put a few back in.
Would that work?

I might be a while replying this time... time to aquascape!
(BTW, I read that stargrass is exempt from the 2-inch rule- under heavy pruning it makes a nice groundcover :p Also going to look into ordering some dwarf baby tears since I need a foreground plant in my 5G and the dwarf sag is a tall middleground plant.)

Also, it's funny that you suggested the cheap light fixture or lamp... http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...57/#post338060
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:04 AM   #10
 
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If the fish are you I'd just add flakes 1x day and just simple let it run a fishless cycle there and not worry no more about that (that's how I set up all my new tanks if not seeded).

If you take 3-4 MTS and place them in lil groups in each tank; they'll do the natural thing real quick themselves and you'll have plenty MTS in each of the tanks And yes I'd also pull them out of the non-cycled tank and add them when its done cycling (so you avoid possibly loosing them).

The Stargrass & ground cover I donno looking at my tank it rather 'large' of my ground cover taste. The dwarf baby tears I LOVVVEEE and will get more soon as well. What developed nicly in my new shrimp set up is the dwarf hairgrass and that's looking real neat by now Also you may wanna consider building yourself a java moss carpet with some java moss & piece of window screen you tie it down to and it will grow along it; looks pretty nice IMO I can glady take & add pictures for you later today if you like.
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