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Cyanobacteria: gearing up for the TOTAL blackout

15K views 55 replies 8 participants last post by  SinCrisis 
#1 ·
After all the water changes, pruning, adding new plants, changing the lighting schedule...I'm no closer to getting a handle on the cyanobacteria outbreak I'm experiencing. After rolling around treating the tank with Maracyn I have decided to use the black out method instead.
I'm a little worried about where I read the massive die off of cyano can have an negative affect on my fish. As this is my Discus display tank I want to be very careful. Do I perform a major water change prior to blacking out the tank, keep the tank in total darkness for four days, unwrap after four days and do another large water change?

I re-read the prior thread regarding this and if I'm reading it right, four days should do the trick?

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/aquarium-plants/outbreak-cyanobacteria-help-55601/page2/
 
#2 ·
Have you tried carbon?

With the total blackout, you need to remove as much of it manually as possible. Personally, I'd do a water change in the middle of the dark to be safe. (Or just test the water).

Be careful scraping it- I scraped off some BGA, and THAT's what killed my green terrors- allellochemicals....
 
#3 ·
Have you tried carbon?

With the total blackout, you need to remove as much of it manually as possible. Personally, I'd do a water change in the middle of the dark to be safe. (Or just test the water).

Be careful scraping it- I scraped off some BGA, and THAT's what killed my green terrors- allellochemicals....
Please tell me how carbon will kill the cyano? By removing all the excess organics the cyano is feeding from??
 
#5 · (Edited)
I've done a total blackout before with success. here's a link with somepictures http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-aquarium/starting-my-blackout-gonna-miss-my-36742/

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...videos/pictures-my-tank-after-72-hours-37090/


I trimmed as much out as i could. Then did a 50% WC. Then blacked it out. After it was all done i couldn't see trace one of any cyano. The hardest part was not peeking.

I did not have any really sensitive fish in my tank at the time of blackout. I feel that's at least worth pointing out
 
#7 ·
I've had a couple algae outbreaks (green water was the worst), and all I had to do was run carbon in the tank until it was gone...

Pretty sure it removes all the nutrients, iron, and DOC from the water. My plants also suffered, unfortunately...

Tanks been green-water free for over a month now.. Might be worth a try.
 
#8 ·
The more I read the more I don't know what to do. Maracyn is out, as it'll kill my bio-bed. The black out, while it may kill the cyano, doesn't get to the root cause of why it was there in the first place (excessive organics?) and I'm told it'll just come back if I don't get to the source.

I had pulled out a bunch of anacharis when I had fully pruned the tank back two weeks ago. I had placed all the anacharis in a bucket out on the patio with the idea to get to it and see if I couldn't salvage some of it. After sitting in that bucket on the patio for two weeks (I had forgotten all about it) it was algae free. Causation, correlation, coincidence or none of those?? Now I'm thinking UV sterilizer...
 
#9 ·
the blackout won't completely solve your problem, but in my case it killed out the cyano in my tank. After the blackout i had to dial down my lights, start adding ferts and add co2 to get everything in balance. It's all about the balance as you well know. For me it was easier (and more sightly) to get rid of the stuff, and then work to figure out what was out of whack. Thats just my thoughts on the issue, but i'm just an amateur. I'm sure whatever you decide to do will be the right thing. :)
 
#10 ·
the blackout won't completely solve your problem, but in my case it killed out the cyano in my tank. After the blackout i had to dial down my lights, start adding ferts and add co2 to get everything in balance. It's all about the balance as you well know. For me it was easier (and more sightly) to get rid of the stuff, and then work to figure out what was out of whack. Thats just my thoughts on the issue, but i'm just an amateur. I'm sure whatever you decide to do will be the right thing. :)

:cry: I just want to go back to the way it was! Two years and all of a sudden?? I don't get it. Something, obviously, has changed, but I don't know what. I do not want to have to go the CO2 route, that I do know. Still trying to figure out how everything got so out of balance here... *sniffs*

An amateur? You got rid of cyano, are running CO2 and have an algae free tank. Amateurs can't to that!!
 
#12 ·
i wish there was something that ate this stuff, its gotta occur naturally in nature, how does mother earth get rid of it? I want algae in my tank, like the good stuff, diatoms, green algae, even fuzz algae i want. But i just get BGA all the time and im really confused as to why this one appears of all the possible algae in my tank.

Aunt Kymmie, are you getting any other type of algae in excess too? or is it just the BGA? If its just BGA, then maybe theres a unique trait to BGA that allow it to thrive where other algaes cannot?
 
#14 ·
i wish there was something that ate this stuff, its gotta occur naturally in nature, how does mother earth get rid of it? I want algae in my tank, like the good stuff, diatoms, green algae, even fuzz algae i want. But i just get BGA all the time and im really confused as to why this one appears of all the possible algae in my tank.

Aunt Kymmie, are you getting any other type of algae in excess too? or is it just the BGA? If its just BGA, then maybe theres a unique trait to BGA that allow it to thrive where other algaes cannot?
There is actually another algae that has started and I'm told it's an algae that feeds off of cyano which would explain why it's now in my tank. I don't know what it's called but it looks like black soot. It appears next to the areas where the cyano is. Doesn't my tank just sound lovely?? :evil:
 
#16 ·
Interesting, thats the stuff i find UNDER my BGA when i suction it off my stuff, it also comes up quite easily with the bga. I know that some plants secrete alleochemicals against BGA such as Anachris and hornwort, but adding anachris to my tank just added another surface for my bga.

I keep a bunch of small crypts in my tank also, perhaps theres research on the relationship of crypts to cyano?

My cyano does not grow on or near my crypts though, its mostly on my swords and watersprite..
 
#18 ·
Interesting, thats the stuff i find UNDER my BGA when i suction it off my stuff, it also comes up quite easily with the bga. I know that some plants secrete alleochemicals against BGA such as Anachris and hornwort, but adding anachris to my tank just added another surface for my bga.

I keep a bunch of small crypts in my tank also, perhaps theres research on the relationship of crypts to cyano?

My cyano does not grow on or near my crypts though, its mostly on my swords and watersprite..
My crypts are the most vulnerable, in my tank it seems.
Right now I'm seeing more of this "stuff", than I am the cyano. I wish I knew what the heck to do. I can see why people throw their hands up and hit the tank with algaecides.
 
#23 ·
i have heard of UV sterilizers being effective for algae, bacterial infections, parasite, and most other baddies in tanks, and i would assume also BGA since loose particles of it will be killed by the light. I do not think it will affect your biological filter as much either since most bacterial grow on surfaces and are not free floating. However, you still need to take it off anything its growing on and do the blackout to get as much of it off as possible...
 
#24 ·
I agree- UV sterilisers will completely eliminate ich, (and other) parasites, Greenwater, and infectious bacteria, but I'm not certain it would help with Cyano.

D Walstad claims that if everything is in balance, you won't have algae outbreaks... (She added chunks of BGA, spoonfuls of Cyano, and cups of greenwater to her tanks to prove it- the algae was dead in a couple weeks.)

How old are your bulbs? Most tubes have to be replaced every year (or couple of years.) Maybe your tubes are old and the light diminished ?
 
#37 ·
I agree- UV sterilisers will completely eliminate ich, (and other) parasites, Greenwater, and infectious bacteria, but I'm not certain it would help with Cyano.

D Walstad claims that if everything is in balance, you won't have algae outbreaks... (She added chunks of BGA, spoonfuls of Cyano, and cups of greenwater to her tanks to prove it- the algae was dead in a couple weeks.)

How old are your bulbs? Most tubes have to be replaced every year (or couple of years.) Maybe your tubes are old and the light diminished ?
Agree with above with exception that UV sterilizers can only addresss that which passes through the
'UV' unit.With parasites such as ICH the Sterilizer would only be effective during free swimming stage.
If for whatever reason the ICH became present,and cyst's dropped off of fish and managed to land on substrate which is not uncommon, then UV would have little effect. But perhaps frequent gravel vaccuming along with the UV would have desired results against ICH in such instances.
UV units rely on slow flow through the area where UV bulb is to allow contact time with the UV bulb and be effective. Parasites,,unless free swimming in the water,,would not be affected by the use of UV. IMHO
If cause of CYANO was/is water, Bacteria, I should think more than one tank would be affected.
 
#28 ·
Well the reason I mention the bulbs is because she had no cyano, and boom, it appeared. I have a feeling her bulbs are old, and if so, they need to be replaced regardless.

May get rid of the cyano (or slow the growth to allow manual removal) with no need to do anything.
 
#31 ·
Very funny, Lainey. Nope, it's not my bulbs. They are replaced every six months, which pains me since each bulb is $30 a pop. Tossing out a perfectly working bulb, argh. Another reason I want to move over to a T8 fixture, instead of these CF straight pin bulbs I'm using.

@Redchigh- Walstad is right, I still can't figure out what is out of balance...

Yes, I'll be doing the black out after I get home from being away for the weekend. I don't want to cover up the tank and leave for the weekend. I plan on doing water changes during the black out, in the evening when the room is dark. If there is a big die off of cyano I want to clear it out so my Discus don't have to be subjected to any increases in ammonia, etc. that may happen. I'm able to do water changes while keeping the tank totally dark, the way I have it set up.

@Lisa- Skip and Doc say thanks for the pets on the head, but Kasey wants to know why he wasn't wished one?? :lol:
 
#45 · (Edited)
Are you still dosing flourish?

Algae requires TINY amounts of light. (The theory that more light creates more algae growth through photosynthesis is wrong.)

Algae do require high levels of iron, and iron is split into molecules the algae can use by light. So more light -> more algae, but not for the reason people think.

That could be why blackouts work. Even the tank without the light on, it would take a tiny fraction of a lumen to keep the algae alive- a tiny crack in the shading material would be enough, but it DOES cut off the iron supply, and starve the algae.

You could try adding carbon, doing a big W/C, and not fertilise for a week and see if it helps. :)
That is, if you're not all set on the blackout.

Also, a comment on baking the clay-
Clay can be used to make effective root tabs. Baking them in an oven simply makes the clay unstable, where it breaks down faster, while firing it in a kiln will lock up all the nutrients.

When I make root tabs, just let them air-dry for a couple weeks. They hold together in water better. I'm working on a way to mass-produce the tabs so I can sell them in the classifieds forum.
 
#47 ·
So how is this going aunt kymmie? Have you completed you blackout yet?

I dosed maracyn for 4 days, took a break for 2 and then dosed for 2 more days with a 25% water change at the end and all my BGA is gone. My water parameters are stable and i have no signs of any damage to my good bacteria (no fluctuations in water chemistry).
 
#48 ·
So how is this going aunt kymmie? Have you completed you blackout yet?

I dosed maracyn for 4 days, took a break for 2 and then dosed for 2 more days with a 25% water change at the end and all my BGA is gone. My water parameters are stable and i have no signs of any damage to my good bacteria (no fluctuations in water chemistry).
LOL, no, I'm so stubborn I still have not done the black out! If I was convinced it would work I would. Everything I've read says that if you don't get to the root cause it'll just come back. Further reading (and what others tell me) is that a break out of cyano is a result of excess organics in the water. So, what I've been doing is massive water changes, cleaning every leaf I can in the process, added polishing pads to my filter (to trap the tiniest of particles) and instead of dosing Flourish Comprehensive once a week, I started using it twice a week. I also cut back my lighting by one hour.

As of right now I do not see any cyano in the tank. I know there's no way I got it all but at least it's not exponentially growing at the moment. I'm also thinking of getting Seachem's Purigen and using that in my filter. I know that 1077 used it when he had his discus tank set up and Purigen absorbs excess organics and is said to have a very small impact on trace elements. I had just purchased a giant bottle of Chemipure but luckily before I opended it 1077 told me it removes CO2.

Maracyn is the only thing that will kill it once and for all, and I'm too afraid of nuking my bio in this tank. Maybe if there were different fish in this tank I would but I'm too afraid to take a chance like that with my discus. Sin, did you take readings before and after treatment? What was your nitrAte reading before treatment and then after??
 
#50 ·
My PH held stable at 7.6-7.8, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and ~40ppm nitrates all throughout. However, i did add water sprite part of the way in so that might have reduced and change in nitrates.
That sounds to me like the Maracyn had zero negative effect. Will you remind me the size of the tank (and the livestock) you performed this Maracyn protocol on?? Thx!
 
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