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Considering live plants...

10K views 80 replies 10 participants last post by  Austin 
#1 · (Edited)
Ok, so if lighting isn't too expensive like I always thought it was (I guess I based that assumption off the expensiveness of saltwater light bulbs...) I'm thinking of considering trying live plants. :]

I've been reading around the forum and ya'll made me want live plants. =[ They are so much more beautiful than fake plants. I got a few questions though.

My aquarium hood has a basic fluorescent bulb in it... And of course the hood can only handle a certain amount of watts. Would it probably be able to handle a bulb that is strong enough for plants? Or am I gonna have to buy a new hood? I have a standard 29 g tank...

What kind of bulbs do I need? About how much do you guys think they are? Hoping I won't need a new hood.

How do you clean your gravel? I was just reading about moving the plants and how it will kill them if you move it too much. I typically vacuum my gravel on my water changes... Will I no longer need to gravel the vacuum? Will the plants keep the gravel clean? I'll just suck it off the top?

Will I be able to add plants continuously or do you think it's better to add them all at once?

Do you need to acclimate plants after you buy them or is it ok to just throw them in the water?

I tried plants before, but I think my lighting was too bad (I didn't think about it before...) and they all died and ended up rotting away. Do older roots and leafs normally rot...? lol

Do I need a special filter?

Will I NEED fertilizer or anything special to keep the plants healthy?

How do you avoid algae outbreaks with the heavy lighting and how do you keep algae off the plants?

Sorry about the common questions... I'll probably be able to find them around here... but if I do decide to start getting some live plants, I'd really really reallyyyyy love anyone who could give me some personalized help! :-D

Thanks guys! Hope the lighting isn't too expensive, I'd really love live plants. Need to find a way to get money!


Edit: Feel free to skip the common questions which is probably all of them... I'm going to read around this section!!


Hmm... my water is hard... Says plants like soft water. :x
 
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#2 ·
Hi Austin, glad to hear of another convert to planted aquaria.:-D

My aquarium hood has a basic fluorescent bulb in it... And of course the hood can only handle a certain amount of watts. Would it probably be able to handle a bulb that is strong enough for plants? Or am I gonna have to buy a new hood? I have a standard 29 g tank...

What kind of bulbs do I need? About how much do you guys think they are? Hoping I won't need a new hood.
Will work fine. The hood will only take the tube that fits it in length. Fluorescent tubes are standard in watts per the length, except now they are making tubes that use less energy (watts are thus less) but produce same intensity of light (brightness) so wattages differ. But you will have a standard fluorescent that takes T8 tubes. The best single tube is a full spectrum around 6700K, and you can buy inexpensive ones at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.

How do you clean your gravel? I was just reading about moving the plants and how it will kill them if you move it too much. I typically vacuum my gravel on my water changes... Will I no longer need to gravel the vacuum? Will the plants keep the gravel clean? I'll just suck it off the top?
We've had a couple threads about this lately; generally, the substrate is left alone because the bacteria break down the organics into nutrients for the plants. I only vacuum the gravel along the front where my Corydoras feed to keep it clean for them.

Will I be able to add plants continuously or do you think it's better to add them all at once?

Do you need to acclimate plants after you buy them or is it ok to just throw them in the water?
Doesn't really matter; at the beginning the most you can plant the better because you can add fish immediately as there is no "cycle" with live plants. But they can be added as you find one you like. Only today I bought a new Echinodorus for my 90g, and if look at the photos of that tank you'll wonder where on earth it will fit.:lol: I just drop mine in the aquarium when I get home, and plant them properly then or later.

I tried plants before, but I think my lighting was too bad (I didn't think about it before...) and they all died and ended up rotting away. Do older roots and leafs normally rot...? lol
Yes, but naturally over time. Plants continue to grow and new leaves emerge and older ones yellow and get cut off.

Do I need a special filter?

Will I NEED fertilizer or anything special to keep the plants healthy?

How do you avoid algae outbreaks with the heavy lighting and how do you keep algae off the plants?
These questions will be covered in the 4-part series of stickies at the head of this section that I authored. I suggest you have a read, they are a general guide to setting up a low-tech natural planted aquarium. I can answer specific questions from that if you have any, and I expect you will. Have a look at my aquaria photos to see what is achievable with the approach outlined in that series.

Your last point was hard water, just how hard? If you know the hardness (GH and KH) and pH of your tap water, post it. Plants are more adaptable than many fish to differing water parameters, within reason. And there are some that are more particular, others less.

Byron.
 
#3 ·
I'm sure you'll get tons of info, but I can add my experiences so far with live plants since I'm new to them as well and answer a few questions.

I have a 29g, with 2 basic hoods on the tank since I didn't have a double light hood. I have a total of 33W between both bulbs (18w and 15w) one is 8,000K and the other is 5,000K. Both are T8 lights. With this low wattage all of the plants in my tank have taken root and are now starting to grow noticeably each day. I think each bulb was around 15-20 bucks.

I'm yet to have to clean my gravel, but if you have enough plants you shouldn't have to vacuum as much, if at all.

From what I know, you don't need to acclimate your plants to your tank, but you may see portions of the plants die off as they slowly get used to your water's parameters. My crypt, for example, lost half of it's leaves in the first week, but is now growing like crazy. Just trim off the dying portions so the plant doesn't waste energy on them.

Someone else will have to answer about the need for ferts. I have eco complete substrate, and I add flourish fert once a week at some suggestions from this board.

Algae for me hasn't been a problem yet, since I have a "low" light setup. If you aren't going to buy new expensive lights I wouldn't think algae will be too much of a problem.

As far as a filter goes, I have a small power-head with a sponge filter attached. You don't want to have a bio-wheel or any filter that bubbles air through or breaks the surface of the water. That process removes necessary CO2 from the system.

Hope this helps a little! I'm new to raising aquatic plants myself, but with a little research they really are pretty simple! And its great looking at the changes taking place in my aquarium each day!
 
#4 ·
YAY!!! Another converter awesome!
Yea I buy my lights at Lowes as well and you can see the planted tan pic's in my log here to see how its working with the plants. I pref to get the Daylights from Bright effects but settle for GE as well dep on the size you need.
For a nomal 29g anything like 15-20watts bulbs will be fully workable there. I have recently changed my 55g to 30w and its working GREAT (normal 4ft T8 Daylight from GE)
Uhm I payed like less then $10 for a 2pack of 4ft'ers last time but bite me what the exact price now was I donno:-?
And no any hood is workable and you'll find fitting lights for it that are good for plants at Lowes, Homedepot Walmart whatever you have close by.

I vac in the "open" spots and hover a lil between plants but that's it. The mulm that builds up from not vacuuming is actually real good plant food ;-)

Visually to plant it fully in one go is nicer but as far as your tank & fish are concerned it really doesn't matter at all.

I usually acclimate mine in a plastic bucket for anywheres from 1hrs to a day or so till I'm having enough time to do the job.

Yo may need liquid ferts for stem plants or root tablets for plants like Swords & Crypts but that really dep on your source water...Outta all the tank you see under my log only ONE gets liquid ferts and the rest I believe speaks for itself :-D

Algaewon't be no issue if you have the lights as described by B. and myself and if need be have ferts added (or not if your water permits it).

How hard in degrees is your water? I don't recall my old hardness by heart but it was something like 7-8 dKH and you see the tanks there, no problem. I find (now that I have super soft water) some plants actually do thrive better in harder water then softer water.

So let's get your lights sorted; test your hardness and we can all work together on a inexpensive plat list for ya;-)
 
#5 ·
I have nothing to add (as everyone else here has got you covered) other than "smart choice", your fish will love you for it.
I have San Diego tap water (hard as concrete) and my plants do great. If I can grow them you can too. :)
 
#6 ·
I'm sorry but I honestly don't know the hardness of my tap water. :X Other than the inaccurate test strips I've never tested it before, and I've yet to get a liquid test kit or something.... I'll try to get one! But is there somewhere I can find out the hardness and PH of my tap water? It might be similar to Aunt Kymmie as I live just north of San Diego up past Camp Pendleton. Though my water readings were always VERY HARD on the test strips! Don't know about the PH though... it seems to be nothing extreme though...

Anyways, about lighting... A 20W T8 6500k light would work? I've posted pictures of my tank before and there's a picture of it on my aquarium log so you can see the size... it's somewhat tall....

If it would accept a 20W bulb that would be amazing because I wouldn't need to buy a new lighting fixture? It says for up to 20W.... I could probably squeeze in a little bit above 20W at it'd probably be fine... But I don't want the house to burn down.

Do you think petsmart would sell the lights? Even if they are a bit more, I might have a gift card somewhere with some money on it....

Also the lighting fixture is 30" long and I believe it takes 24" bulbs... Can anyone tell me exactly what to look for? Also I think it only has one plug for a bulb, so I'd need an all-in-one bulb...

My 29g has too many fish in it...

6 balloon molly
5 platy
3 guppy

So I think the plants will have ample "fertilizer" as well as CO2?

My filter is a hang over the top 200 GPH biowheel type filter... will I be needing to exchange that out? :x What kind of filter is recommended and how much do you expect it to cost? I could take out the biowheel part if needed... Though I plan to only add one or two plants at first to see how they do (so I don't want to take out the nitrogenous bacteria!) but will they do bad if they don't have the ammonia?

Also will my fish be able to get enough oxygen during the night? :S

Thanks so much guys, your answers really have helped!
 
#7 ·
Hi Austin,
Byron and Angel are WAAAAY more experienced than I'll probably ever be. They are amazing resources for people with planted tanks and more! I am just getting into the planted world myself. However, I will point out a few things you had questions on. PetSmart will carry the lighting, but when I priced them there out of curiousity (I was there for something else) the light at PetSmart was $16.99 and the SAME light at Lowe's was $6.49. I needed 2....nice savings there! My hood also takes 24" bulbs. 2 of them. Just look for 24" bulb at 15-20w and 5000-6700k.

I did change my hang on back (HOB) filter to a canister. One MAJOR thing I noticed with the HOB filter is that if the water level isn't at the VERY TOP of the tank, it causes a splashing sound and forces a ton of air bubbles into the tank. This will not be good for plants. The air bubbles will drive out the CO2, which is what plants need. I instead changed my HOB filter to an Eheim 2213 canister filter. It can be found at PetSmart.com for $86 shipped (not available in stores for this price), or I found mine on Ebay for $75 shipped. However, I'm not sure if it's still available from that seller. He had 10 left when I bought mine.
 
#8 ·
Damnnn, 86$ is quite a bit...

I'm suprised lights are that cheap. I'll have to scavenger my drawers in hopes of finding 10$ or something. :p I have like 10$ in change maybe I should just cash that in... Wouldn't wanna make someone count it all out. XD



I got a question, are the plants more sensitive to the O2 and CO2 levels than the fish?? Everyone is mostly concerned that there won't be enough CO2 in the tank... I have quite a few fish and my concern even w/o plants is will there be enough O2!? And at night time both the fish and plants produce CO2... won't the fish suffocate? :X

My good good friend online offered to help me pay for it... I'm so broke I'm tempted to take the offer... I'll feel bad though, and dunno how I'd explain it to my parents. Dx

Don't think I'm a horrible person for considering, please! D:
 
#9 ·
Oh, and I forgot to mention I had salt in my tank... I added around 1tsp-1tbsp per 5 gallons for my mollies/platies/guppies.

But since they do not really need it, I plan to remove it fully over a period of time.

I plan to do about 25-30% water changes daily to remove the salt. Replacing the water with freshwater with no salt.

How many day do you recommend I change the water 25-30% until it's safe (salt-wise) to add plants?
 
#10 ·
Promise this is the last post in a rowww... I can't edit... so :/

Ummm my dad's gonna take me to lowes in a few hours, and maybe walmart if lowes doesn't have it... I'm going to look for a 24" T8 20W(is somwhere around that ok?) 6500k (also can this be +/- a little? does it make a difference) CFL? so yaaa those are the last quick questions I got. I'm happily surprised how cheap the bulbs are! I found 8$ scavenging my drawers! :D and had 5$ worth of quarters so hopefully that will cover it! ;)

What else should I look for?

I searched the lowes website and I couldn't really find exactly what I needed... though the websites are way harder to navigate than the stores... If anyone can link me to a bulb I should look for would you please? :D if you know exactly what to look for on the website...
 
#12 ·
I think it only takes 1 bulb. :/ Does that mean 20W won't be enough? D:

Also, Will it be necessary to have a canister filter? :/ I looked them up and they are way more than I can pay atm... so I don't think I'll be able to switch if a canister filter is necessary to keep the plants healthy.
 
#13 ·
Austin, from some of your questions I take it you haven't yet read the series of stickies on setting up a natural planted tank. You will find a lot of info there and hopefully it will be such that you will see the connections. I can't go into all that here, but oxygen in planted tanks for fish is never an issue. And the filter is explained there; on a 29g a simple sponge filter is sufficient, you don't need a canister.

One thing on the light, you only need to know the length of the tube that fits your fixture. All tubes that length will be the same wattage or might be less because of new tubes that use less energy (watts) for equal light output. Just make sure it is a full spectrum or daylight type, with a kelvin rating around 6500K (6700K is fine, 6000K is fine).

Byron.
 
#14 ·
Thank you for the information. :) I actually read the stickies directly after posting my 1st post. I read through them pretty quickly though and might not have absorbed all the information. I'll read them again later. Right now I'm going to buy the light. Sorry for the repetitive questions. D: I guess I'll look into buying a sponge filter later on.

I know that my filter is not suitable for planted tanks but is there any way to make it work? Maybe I'll hold out on plants and just get the light and keep my java moss that's already in there until I can afford proper filtration and stuff.

Thanks for the info. :)
 
#16 · (Edited)
Thank you for the information. :) I actually read the stickies directly after posting my 1st post. I read through them pretty quickly though and might not have absorbed all the information. I'll read them again later. Right now I'm going to buy the light. Sorry for the repetitive questions. D: I guess I'll look into buying a sponge filter later on.

I know that my filter is not suitable for planted tanks but is there any way to make it work? Maybe I'll hold out on plants and just get the light and keep my java moss that's already in there until I can afford proper filtration and stuff.

Thanks for the info. :)
The HOB filter will work short-term. If it is a waterfall, not much you can do to slow it down. But if it has a return spout, you can make diffusers from sponge and such, I think Angel079 has done this so she will probably comment.

And questions are fine, none of us mind questions. But as I read you latest posts earlier I saw a series of questions that require fairly detailed answers that have all been covered in the stickies, and rather than me or others taking a lot of time to repeat what is right there, we recommend you have a good read. We use stickies in all sections of the forum to cover basics for this reason.:cheers:
 
#15 ·
What light did you wind up buying?
Like my fixture is for up to 40w on the 10g but I use CFLs there so while its using the power of 7w bulb its actually giving off as much light as a 20w or something like that. And that works real great.

What kinda filter do you have on there right now a HOB?

For the water you can call your local water company they'll be able to tell you the hardness & the pH that's coming out of your tap.

Here's how I'd arrange the purchases there needed in order:
New light from home store <$10
Liquid testkit from Tetra @ Walmart $17
Plants for a well planted 29g anywhere form $10-20 (dep on what plants you like)
Filter either rework what you have or spent $8 for a sponge or $12-15 for a internal filter (Pers with your fish and tank I'd go with a internal filter)
So you'd look at a total of anywhere from $45-60 for the whole conversion and have everything that's needed for a perfect set up there.
 
#17 · (Edited)
@angel:

Sweet, that's not a bad price. I didn't know sponge filters were so cheap! I'll probably convert when I get much more live plants?? Don't I need the stronger filter for now since I have barely any plants? Minus the live plants, which I'll add slowly later on, it seems pretty cheap to convert.

I'll buy the test kit probably online I might possibly have a petsmart gift card somewhere.

I ended up buying a GE daylight T12 20W 6500k flourescent bulb... I can't tell if its compact flourescent or not??

I'll attach a picture of the box.

Also I find the light very... ugly... It's not as white as my old light was... My tank almost looks tented green, it's very odd. It doesn't look as bright as I had expected it to be. I'm not really happy with the coloring though... totally does not bring out the fish's color so idk... :/

I bought some Aponogeton Bulbs to see how they do. :p I bought them before when I didn't know about proper lighting and stuff and they sprouted and looked ok. :) Maybe now they'll grow and flourish! :D

Blah come to think of it... it's not a compact flourescent unless they just don't label it. :/ I'll prolly end up back at walmart?


Edit: ugg there was something I was gonna say then forgot. bahhh.

Edit Again: Oh, I think I was gonna say I got a T12 cus I couldn't find a T8 with 6500K. Alsooo I was gonna ask does the government have a website that can tell me the water PH and hardness from local water?
 

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#18 ·
That's a good tube you bought. It has the ideal spectrum (6500K) and it has good intensity (1025 lumens). When you get live plants it will be quite a different look, and the fish will brighten up among plants.

I've never run across that GE tube, must see if I can track it down up here.
 
#19 · (Edited)
It was just what walmart happened to have that looked like it had the right K and it says daylight like I was told to get.

So it's fine for my 29 gallon tank you think?

Though honestly the light looks so uglyyy to me. It's not as white it makes everything look greener... it looks how it did when i was treating the ich with the malachite green (or blue i cant remember) and it looks very dim! I thought it'd be a lot brighter for the plants. Ya sure it's strong enough?


Edit: Random... but you can see my frog in the pic. :D He's swimming around a lot more and stuff lately. He seems happy even with all the fish and ya... though I'm told I shouldn't have gotten him. (too late now though >< and I hate giving the pet store animals cus I think they'll either die in the tanks there or some stupid person will buy it and it'll live in worse conditions or die.


Oh, and should I expect a java moss boom now? XD The java moss didn't grow really before.
 
#20 ·
Here's the sponge I'd buy was this my tank Bio Foam Double Sponge Filters, Sponge Filters | Pet Solutions generally I buy all my tank supplies at that webpage.
Or the Cascade 300 here which will be plenty sfficicent for that sized tank trust me (they're strong filters) Cascade Internal Filters, Internal Filters | Pet Solutions

That's the exact same bulbs I have over my 55 &45g now (same brand same all).
If you don't like the color, bring it back and get the same one that's called "Sunlight" lil less kelvin (5000k and 2800 lumens) but works just as fine with the plants.


T8 or T12 is the size of the bulbs you need to look at your hood what's gonna fit in to it!!!

Edit: Take a picture of how your HOB is hooked to the tank so maybe we can see about changing it to make it work for plants (with some HOBs you can do it other's are uhm well junk lol)
 
#21 ·
You tanks look so nice with those bulbs though! Idk why they just look sooo dull to me.... Even duller than my old light... but I guess they are stronger?? For the plants??

Anyways it might look better once I add plants? It just looks so dull I'm surprised it's a light for plants...

I keep my room pretty dark so that's fine right? The light bulb is the only source of lights these plants are gonna get...

Oh and angel I think you commented about my frog on my other thread so that's the only reason I'm mentioning him here kinda... :p But I put him in the breeder trap for like 20 minutes with the lights off for him to eat and all the blood worms disappeared. Don't think they can get out of the small holes so I think he's eating and he swims around a lot so I think hes happy. :D

Here's some pics of my filter. The flash makes it look really dirty!!

And a picture of my tank... dunno why I'm including it... I accidentally pushed the take picture button so I aimed it at the tank and got that. XD Pretty clear picture, but man does the flash make it look ugly. :|
 

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#22 ·
Try taking photos of the aquarium without flash; they will look better.

Re the light, yes I think it will be fine for the plants. One caution on Angel's latest suggestion for changing it--if you think what you have is not white you certainly will not like the lower kelvin tubes. They have more red and less blue which sounds like the opposite of what you were expecting. What you have is the best natural light for the fish and plants; I have these over my tanks.

Byron.
 
#23 ·
That is also the same exact light I put over my 55g, but I have 2. I think the picture of your tank that you took with the new light looks great. Save the receipt and see if you like it once you plant it. The plants will probably give it a totally different look. I personally love the light.
 
#24 ·
Thanks guys,

I think I'll try the lights for a bit and see if they look better when I get plants, that won't be too soon though. I'm just going to keep the bulbs and the java moss for now until I can afford a sponge filter and some plants. :) I have 8$ atm. aha.
 
#25 ·
Welp, I'm going to buy the test kit and the filter. My friend regularly shops at best buy and I have a 50$ gift card so he's gonna buy me an e gift card and ill give him the number to my best buy card. I don't need anything at best buy anytime soon anyways.

Damn I'm such a compulsive person...

Anyways the cascade is for 10 gallons it says the 300 that u said to get. I have tons of fish so I might go for the 400 instead... 600 is way expensive but idk might think about that.

Thanks guys for all the help! :D
 
#26 ·
Anyways the cascade is for 10 gallons it says the 300 that u said to get. I have tons of fish so I might go for the 400 instead... 600 is way expensive but idk might think about that.
In a planted tank, filtration is only required to move the water through the pads/sponge to remove suspended particulate matter. The fish load has very little to do with filters because the plants handle the waste and ammonia, not the bacteria in a filter. And you do not want a lot of current for several reasons that are detrimental to the fish and the plants (unless the fish are fast stream catfish or something that need it). IF Natalie recommended the 300 that will do you; she's used this filter. B.
 
#27 ·
What if I only have one or two plants in there for now? Can the fish out-produce the plants in ammonia? D= thats what im worried about... I'll probably buy the 300 then... Will it be ok to keep the activated carbon in and stuff still? Hmm, ok. Well that saves 10$. Maybe I can use the other money and buy some plants.
 
#28 ·
It is amazing how much ammonia a plant will assimilate. But I would get more plants, absolutely. But there are not many fish in this tank, I can only see one in the photo...course, my eyes are old and feeble:shock:. Anyway, bacteria (if it is needed because there is more ammonia that the plants can use)colonizes every hard surface under water. There is more bacteria in a normal fish tank thoughtout the tank than ever in a filter. So that is not an issue. Second, more filtration does not mean more fish can live, which is the same in reverse of saying you need more filtration because there are more fish.

You don't want carbon in a filter in a planted tank, but at the beginning it will do no harm for a couple weeks. The carbon will wear out and become ineffective within a few weeks, depending upon the bio-load in the tank. Which leads me to ask why you are considering this filter rather than a simpler sponge type? I may have missed this earlier in the thread, but it is worth asking because simplicity is the better path.

Byron.
 
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