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post #11 of 19 Old 09-21-2007, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice! In regards to the sword matter how much I would cut off the plants would completely turn that way...all the leaves...and whatever grew back was short and stunted. I had tabs in the gravel too and I still had the problem with any swords I purchased. My plants just aren’t happy with me! :(

Is my lighting system enough…two 65w 6700k power compact bulbs? Or should I get the 6700/10,000 combo bulbs...not the actinic though? I’ve never been sure if my lighting was sufficient.

Again thanks,

55 gal. Freshwater Community since Oct. 2005

5 Rainbowfish, 3 Blue Danios, 1 Bristlenose Pleco, 3 Peppered Corycats, 5 Dojo Loaches, 3 Black Kuhli Loaches.
Live plants and driftwood.

Filtration - Penguin BioWheel 350 & Eheim Pro II 2026 Canister.
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post #12 of 19 Old 09-22-2007, 01:10 PM
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Ok, first and foremost, dose Excel every day. The plants are lacking enough Carbon and the addition of the Excel will help imensely. Also, when you dose the Excel, use a pipette or other device and spot treat the algae. You have both BBA(Black Brush algae) and what appears to be slime algae and the Excel will kill both of them with spot treatments and regular dosing. Follow the instructions and you can rarely go wrong.

The lighting is plenty. No worries there. You can go with the 6500,10000 if you want but is not needed. No actinic of course.

Now for the hard part. Dosing. Here is what I dosed when I had Excel and within 3 weeks, the algae was gone and the plants thrived.
Sun, Tue, Thurs, dosed 10ppm KNO3, .88ppm KH2PO4, 20ppm K2SO4.
Mon, Wed, Fri, dosed .3ppm Iron from CSM+B
Every day but Saturday Dosed Excel at recommended dosage spot treating in the the beginning to kill BBA. Also double dosed after waer change.
Sunday after water change, 40ppm Calcium and 10ppm MgSO4.
No dosing Saturday

This is the EI method of dosing; Estimative Index and assumes that there will never be a shortage of any one nutrient which is the main cause for algae problems. DO NOT DOSE THIS UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO DO 50% WATER CHANGES WEEKLY! This dosing regiment requires it to prevent the levels of poisoning your fish.

I have a spreadsheet I specifically designed so a person can see how it works. If you want I will send it to you.

The only other thing I would say that will help immensely would be pressurized CO2. But even with it you need a regular dosing regiment so the plants outcompete the algae.

Root tabs are a must but put them directly under the roots of the large swords. Micro Swords are extremely hard to grow, period. More light, more nutrients and a nutrient substrate are almost required to grow them.

The only plant I see that might not be aquatic is the tall one in the middle with the wide leaves on narrow stems. Looks like an Amazon Sword but could be wrong. Click HERE and take a look to see if you have any of them. I know you researched it but we all make mistakes and LFS will not tell you 9 times out of 10. I had hedge for 6 weeks before I found out.

Click HERE and download the calculator for dosing. It is priceless for calculating the dosing and I have used it for hours and hours. You can stay with the dosing I put above or go with their numbers as far as recommended dosing. Just tweek it as needed if you see any signs of deficiancy. I would dose your iron at .3ppm however regardless of what you dose the others at. At that much light, the plants will use it extremely fast.

Please post any and all other questions. I asked hundreds of them before I finally got my plants to grow the way I wanted them too and I would do it again. It was the only way I finally found something I could use and get my plants to grow the way I wanted them to.
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post #13 of 19 Old 09-22-2007, 02:14 PM
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Side question, are there any kind of calculators that work when just using Flourish products? Or when using those just use the recommended values on the bottles? Chuck's Calc only needed when you dose your stuff by hand with bulk ferts?
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post #14 of 19 Old 09-22-2007, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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fish_4_all..... Thank you~ That was a very helpful post. I already downloaded the calculator and will look it over shortly.

I had a regiment setup with dry powder ferts that I posted about and was curious what you thought of that. Was I missing any key elements in my regiment?

Monday +/- 1/2 tsp KNO3, +/- 1/8 tsp KH2PO4.
Tuesday +/- 1/2 10ml Flourish
Wednesday +/- 1/2 tsp KNO3, +/- 1/8 tsp KH2PO4.
Thursday +/- 1/2 10ml Flourish
Friday +/- 1/2 tsp KNO3, +/- 1/8 tsp KH2PO4.
Saturday *Water Change* +/- 1/2 tsp KNO3, +/- 1/8 tsp KH2PO4, 2 tsp KC1, +/- 1 tbsp MgSO4
Sunday just Excel.

(Excel was administered everyday, about 1 capful)
I am used to dosing by tsp or tbsp…but I have no idea how to figure ppm to measurements that make sense to me. Say .88ppm…how would I figure out what that dosage means when apply it to my tank?

I appreciate your help and willingness to answer my questions! If you don't mind sending me the spreadsheet should I PM you my email address?

I went ahead and put some fert tabs in the soil today to start this whole thing up again. Sounds like I need to order more ferts and get to work on this.


55 gal. Freshwater Community since Oct. 2005

5 Rainbowfish, 3 Blue Danios, 1 Bristlenose Pleco, 3 Peppered Corycats, 5 Dojo Loaches, 3 Black Kuhli Loaches.
Live plants and driftwood.

Filtration - Penguin BioWheel 350 & Eheim Pro II 2026 Canister.
Shannara is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 09-22-2007, 04:17 PM
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Yah, pm me your email and I will send it to you. It only shows that reason why EI works but it helped me because I had to see it rather than have someone explain it to me.

As for dosing, the only real thing I see missing is a regular dosing of KCl. Dose it 3 times a week. Pottasium is one of those elements that are very neccesary and it is really hard to overdose it. I dosed K2SO4 when I did mine but I think the calculator has both.

And when you get into the the calculator for dosing you will be working in teaspoons so it will all work it's way out. The KH2PO4 is mixed in solution for dosing. Also, remember to never dose your Iron with the phosphates because I have actually seen my iron precipitate out in the form of little white crystals and my plants showed signs of deficiency from it. Dose it on the opposite days.

10 gallon tanks heavily planted

Here is what I used to dose and will start again when I get my Excel:
KNO3 1/8 tsp. Sun, Tue, Thur
K2SO4 - 1/4 tsp. Sun, Tue, Thur
MgSO4 - 1/4 tsp. Sun
KH2PO4 - 100 ml water with 1 tsp powder then dosed 1.75ml. Sun, Tue, Thur
CSM+B - 200ml water, 3 tsp. powder mixed well, dose 1/2 tsp. Mon, Wed, Fri (Make sure to dissolve the CSM+B really well as it can take a while.)
You also need some sort of Calcium dosing at a ratio of 4:1 Ca/Mg in ppm.
You can dose the NO3 and PO4 with each other and all the rest on the other days if you want to.

Oh and there is no verfiable informaiton out there but make sure to dissolve them all seperately as some plant keepers have seen some weird interactions when mixing them all together in a small container.
When you go to dose, mix the dry stuff in tank water, not tap water. The KH2PO4 and CSM+B solutions are made with tap water.
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post #16 of 19 Old 09-27-2007, 10:11 AM
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Hi Shannara,
Just want to share with you. Actually I faced the same algae problem on the plant. I have tried one solution and it's really work. I suggest you to add algae eater in your tank. If possible try to get Siamese Algae Eater. As mine i add couple of albino algae eater. And unbelievable my plant is totally clean on the next day. Those algae eater really done their job very well. Until now i do not facing any brown or hair algae on my plant like shown in your photos before. Ok. Good luck.
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post #17 of 19 Old 09-27-2007, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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Zameck... I actually did find some true SAE's which I identified in another thread. So far I do see a dent in the algae and am very happy. I do want to address the underlying issues in the tank that is causing the imbalance. I will probably start this weekend when I have some time to sit down and figure out everything I need.

Thanks for the suggetion though~


55 gal. Freshwater Community since Oct. 2005

5 Rainbowfish, 3 Blue Danios, 1 Bristlenose Pleco, 3 Peppered Corycats, 5 Dojo Loaches, 3 Black Kuhli Loaches.
Live plants and driftwood.

Filtration - Penguin BioWheel 350 & Eheim Pro II 2026 Canister.
Shannara is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 10-08-2007, 11:07 PM
Unrulyevil's Avatar
get some iron for those swords.

and get some more fish. your fish load does not match your plant load
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post #19 of 19 Old 10-09-2007, 01:37 PM
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I do not recommend getting more fish to solve a nutrient shortage. By the time fish waste is broken down into enough useful matter for plants we do a water change. Adding the right nutrients is the best way to go with higher light. Without it you will not have fast plant growth and will have algae problems.
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