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Algea help - what algea cleaners do you use

5K views 20 replies 6 participants last post by  Fabi 
#1 ·
I have 4 siamese algea eaters and a twig catfish farlowella i think is the name. I also have about 15 whisker and ghost shrimp. I have been using the magnet scraper to clean my 55 gallon. I am getting some persistant algea, it is green and on the glass. I also had some brown looking on the plants which seems to have dissapated. Is this a good cleaning crew should I get another SAE or twig cat? I have 4 T5 bulbs 28 watts a piece and am dosing all micronutrients once a week, 2 different fertilizers. Just curious what methods others use to fight algea or how much they allow. I also have 5 cory cats, 2 clown loach, some sword tails, and hatchetfish.
 
#2 ·
Uh oh, reading up on algea to freshen my memory. It looks like I have green dot algea, some areas of glass look more filled out with green algea so that may be a different type, and then I have brown and or black algea on the plants. Not sure whether the last is a brown or red type algea but it is a fairly new tank so perhaps brown or maybe both.
 
#3 · (Edited)
You have lots of light over a 55g and with two weekly fertilizers planty of nutrients. If the plants are not able to utilize all this, the algae will. Aside from the number of plants, there is also the available CO2. If CO2 is the limiting factor to plant growth, then algae have an advantage because they can more readily convert carbon from carbonates.

Green dot algae can be controlled by weekly scraping the glass even if you don't see any; if you notice the dots, use a good scraper or razor blade on the spot; if you're careful the glass won't scratch (I believe acrylic will scratch). Ottos and Farlowella will control green algae but don't always get all this dot stuff. They also do a good job on brown algae; usually this is common in newly established tanks or in low light (you don't have low light, I only have 1 watt per gallon and never see brown algae except when newly setup). Farlowella won't touch brush algae (which may be the "brown/black" you mention--does it grow like tufts on wood, rocks and plant leaves? Frequently appears on Anubia leaves, and is Black Beard Algae although actually reddish but doesn't look it) but I'm told the SAE will. I let it go on the wood, and remove plant leaves with excess when I see it. With excess light and nutrients it can become a menace; Flourish Excel (a carbon supplement) is said by others to remove it if it is out of control.

I've never used the magnet scraper, but I read another post where it scratched the glass, so be careful. I have a sponge scraper I use on the glass every week, then a small hard scraper for the dot algae when I see it.

As a suggestion, I would reduce your light (you should be able to remove one or maybe two of the four tubes) and cut back to one fertilizer a week. Depending upon how the plants respond (you should expect some reaction to this) after a few weeks, a second dose of fertilizer may be re-commenced. Using a baqlanced comprehensive fertilizer is good, but remember the plants can only utilize so much in balance with the light and CO2, and any beyond that is wasted and food for algae.
 
#4 ·
Well, I have been doing 12 hours of light interrupted after 8 for 2 hours of dark and then another 4 of light. I think I am going to reduce the amount of light to 10 hours and continue to stagger them to try and disrupt the algea.

I am fairly scared of scratching the glass with a razor blade but I guess I had better pick up another scraper and a razer scraper to combat the algea if I am going to deal with the dot algea. I am very happy with my actual plant growth so far. Every plant I have has experienced new growth, greener leaves, ect. The slowest it seems was the flame moss getting established and the straight vallis that I cut back.

It looks more like black dots and some areas of brown that just seems like sediment settled on the plant leaves, so far my Siamese and Farlowella have done a good job clenaing the leaves. I removed my banana plant because there was a tuft of black on one of the 'bananas' and manually cleaned them.

I still want to try a do it yourself Co2 so maybe I will use aglea fighting as an excuse. I'll have to look at my other post because I remember you recommended against Co2 in my situation. I've also read that the fertilizers are dependent upon getting the feel for it so maybe that is the reason.
 
#5 ·
Well, I have been doing 12 hours of light interrupted after 8 for 2 hours of dark and then another 4 of light. I think I am going to reduce the amount of light to 10 hours and continue to stagger them to try and disrupt the algea.

I am fairly scared of scratching the glass with a razor blade but I guess I had better pick up another scraper and a razer scraper to combat the algea if I am going to deal with the dot algea. I am very happy with my actual plant growth so far. Every plant I have has experienced new growth, greener leaves, ect. The slowest it seems was the flame moss getting established and the straight vallis that I cut back.

It looks more like black dots and some areas of brown that just seems like sediment settled on the plant leaves, so far my Siamese and Farlowella have done a good job clenaing the leaves. I removed my banana plant because there was a tuft of black on one of the 'bananas' and manually cleaned them.

I still want to try a do it yourself Co2 so maybe I will use aglea fighting as an excuse. I'll have to look at my other post because I remember you recommended against Co2 in my situation. I've also read that the fertilizers are dependent upon getting the feel for it so maybe that is the reason.
Can you post a photo of the black dots on the leaves? Might be something else.

Use less of the fertilizer, watch the plant leaves, increase to twice if they show signs. I did that twice in my tank, went to once a week; after 1 week the swords clearly had yellowing leaves, so I went back to twice a week and within 1-2 weeks new growth was lush green again. Both times. That experiment didn't hurt the plants, and now I kow it takes twice weekly fertilizing (the recommended dose on the Flourish).
 
#6 ·
I have actually been doing one fertilizer every 3 to 4 days alternating the two. They only have one or two nutrients in common, one has .15 nitrogen and one has like 1.0 nitrogen. I am still doing water changes but hesitating a little for my 50 Aqueon siphon in the mail.

I will try to take some pics tonight if I can get some that are not blurry. I think it is an algea because the twig and siamese seem to eat it off the leaves.
 
#7 ·
Byron actually started off his post with my suggestion. Add more plants. About a year ago I decided I wanted to be able to grow more than just crypts in my 55gal tank. So I increased my lighting from 2 - 24" bulbs to 3 - 48" 32watt bulbs. I added more ferts and started using Excel. I added plants and watched as the plants started to grow. I went on a 1 week vacation, came back and was surprised at the amount of algae the tank had grown in that short amount of time.
As stated earlier, if the plants don't use the ferts the algae will. So I thought, if the plants aren't using it up I'll add more plants. Sure enough the amount of algae I get has gone way down. I still scrape the glass every other week but I could go 3-4 weeks if I wanted to.

Try adding more plants and reduce the ferts to once a week.
 
#8 ·
I couldnt get a good pic but I will try again. I picked up a borneo fern, some money wort, a sword plant with red and green leaves, and a thin stem plant but I cant think of its name currently. I also picked up and algae scraper and 3 more SAEs. I noticed they had live black worms also, might be a good treat for the fish. I wish I had read up on them before feeding them some but they seemed clean to me, at least the water they were in.
 
#9 ·
Apparently the borneo fern isnt an aquatic plant, a shame it does look nice but way darker green and woody roots compared to the other plants I have.

Should I bother trying to clean the back and sides of the aquarium of algae if it isn't important to me aesthetically?? I just rearranged and pruned everything in the tank and scraped the glass on the front of the green dot algae. I'll post a pic as it looks nice I think.

Oh, you can see some of the brown on the amazon sword, the leaves are not looking real healthy either on the edges. Should I cut this somewhere to make it bushier, opinion?? Also any idea what the plant is to the left of the large amazon sword, I can't remember the name of it.
 

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#10 ·
A couple of suggestions. The light appears very bright for the number of plants; I wold eliminate half of it (from 112w down to 56w) plus your suggested reduced time. I am certain this is the cause of your algae problems, the light is too intense and there are not enough plants to utilize it.

I would recommend uysing one type of fertilizer, not two different ones. I dn't know personally if this may do anything adverse, but given the fact that you are fertilizing twice a week and as you say the plants are not responding, something is not right, and at a guess it may be two different fertilizers working against each other 9because of different nutrient ratios). I would use just one type, once a week for a few weeks, and if no improvement twice a week.

If the leaves of the swords start yellowing, remove them. Also, swords are heavy root feeders; putting a plant tab in the gravel near the sword would probably help. In March I bought some Hagen Plant Gro sticks and put a couple next to the larger swords in my 90g. This week I removed the plants to set up my empty 115g, and noticed the swords with the sticks were three times the size of the others without (same species, Echinodorus major). I think it probable that the sticks were the reason.
 
#11 ·
Well I hate the idea of not using my other light fixture. I am seeing greener plants and new growth. Ill definately try the root tabs for the swords. I attributed the yellowing leaves to the algae however there are some newer leaves coming from them. Would I prune the long leaves to get wider growth toward the base of them?

My reasoning for the ferts are that they both have different micronutrients with just one or two in common. For example only one has iron. I think I will continue to alternate perhaps just spacing out more and dosing less. I really want to plant more heavily I am trying to let it fill naturally, I think I have opposing thoughts. One I want to plant heavily, two I am nervous about planting too close together especially different species.
 
#15 ·
Well I hate the idea of not using my other light fixture. I am seeing greener plants and new growth. Ill definately try the root tabs for the swords. I attributed the yellowing leaves to the algae however there are some newer leaves coming from them. Would I prune the long leaves to get wider growth toward the base of them?

My reasoning for the ferts are that they both have different micronutrients with just one or two in common. For example only one has iron. I think I will continue to alternate perhaps just spacing out more and dosing less. I really want to plant more heavily I am trying to let it fill naturally, I think I have opposing thoughts. One I want to plant heavily, two I am nervous about planting too close together especially different species.
I'll respond to this and the subsequent post on CO2 since they are related. Plants grow by photosynthesis, and in order to photosynthesize the light and nutrients (includes CO2 and macro-nutrients and micro-nutrients) must be in balance. If one of these is too much to balance the others, the plants cannot utilize it. This is where algae steps in; it can more easily convert carbon from carbonates than plants, so with an excess of light and/or nutrients the algae can increase even though there is not sufficient carbon from CO2. The plants are in this case at a disadvantage.

You will not combat this algae without reducing the light. As for the macro- and micro-nutrients, they also have to be in balance. Using two distinct fertilizers is in my view probably not providing what the plants actually need in terms of the correct amount of each macro- and micro-nutrient. One good comprehensive fertilizer is all that is necessary, unless you start dosing every nutrient individually; but getting these in the proper balance would be impossible for me and I suspect for you, so I would not go down that road. There are good balanced fertilizers available; Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive and Kent Freshwater Plant are two I have used with equal success.

The yellowing leaves in this case are not due to the algae, but very simply to lack of some nutrient. With swords this is frequently iron, but other nutrient deficiencies can also cause yellowing leaves. There was a chart linked in another thread (on this forum I think) that had yellowing leaves for almost every nutrient deficiency, so playing guesswork at figuring out which is not advisable. Some nutrients in excess can cause plants to react by shutting down absorbtion of another nutrient. The ony sensible way is with a balanced fertilizer. Peter Hiscock explains this in his book, and several other plant experts have written the same. Seachem provides a list of the nutrients and their porportion in Flourish on their website.

As for the leaves of the swords, it is a safe bet that the larger leaves are those that were on the plant when you bought them, and the smaller are those that have grown in your tank. The two leaf forms will be different. Plants are usually propogated emersed by the nursery (it is easier and less expensive), much as they grow in the wild; most, but not all, Echinodorus are bog plants in the wild, emersed during the dry season and submersed during the flooding, but they thrive fully submersed in our aquaria. The emersed and submersed leaf forms are quite different, as a result of growing with or without the support of water and the biological functions the plant carries out through the leaves. Most of the emersed leaves will die off as the submersed leaves grow.
 
#16 ·
I forget, what kind of bulbs do you have on your tanks? How do all those corys do in your 90 gallon? Plenty of room for them to move? How many total do you have in there?
Full spectrum are the best fluorescent tubes over a planted tank. The best single tube on its own in my experience is Hagen's Life-Glo 2 which simulates mid-day sun in the tropics in terms of its spectrum and intensity. With two tubes once can mix for optimum plant growth and viewing. On all my tanks I have one Life-Glo 2 tube. The second tube on the 115g [the 90g in the current photos] is a Lightning Rod T6 Superlux which is a 11,000 Kelvin (=higher in the blue, the colour plants most require). Blue also penetrates water better [good thing] so over a deeper tank is useful. Blue makes the tank look cold, and blue and red (red is the second colour plants need) becomes purplish. The green balances the colour even though the plants don't use it--they reflect green, which is why their leaves appear green.

On the 70g in the photos the second tube is a Phillips Daylight Deluxe, a bit higher in red (warmer). I have this week set up my 115g again, and will post photos in a few days when it has settled. I have 1 Life-Glo 2 and 1 Lightning Rod over it. The 90g is presently being reset (it will house the plants and fish from the 70g) and it has a Life-Glo 2 and a Zoo Med Tropic Sun 5500K full spectrum, a bit higher in the warm colours. I plan on getting another Lightning Rod for this tank as well, since it is also deeper and I really do like the combination on the 115g.

Re the corys, they are thriving. Those in the 90g are now in the 115g, and there are 13 corys plus 3 Aspidoras sp (another genus in the family, very close to the Corydoras). The corys are 5 C. gossei, 2 C. metae, 2 C. sterbai, 1 C. leopardus, 1 C. latus, 1 C. reticulatus, and 1 C. algodon [a newly described species still quite rare, similar to C. fowleri]. I'll be getting more corys as I find them [and will be adding a couple C. reticulatus and possibly C. algodon shortly]. Previously for several years I've had 20-30 various corydoras in the 115g and the 90g. They chum around with each other whatever the species.
 
#13 ·
By reducing your light,and greatly reducing your photo period,this should help.I would also cut out the ferts all together.With the WPG and photo period cut down,there will probably be enough waste from the fish to feed your plants.Adding ferts also feeds the algae.

Because you already have the fixture,have you considered pressurized CO2?
 
#14 ·
Only really thought about a DIY Co2 but most seem to recommend against it. I would like to optimize plant growth in the best way to fight algae. Is a DIY much worse than a store bought system. I was thinking just yeast and sugar going into a diffuser of some sort thru an air line. Again most have said prob not to bother with Co2 but that if its the limiting factor algae will take advantage. I suppose I could try the Co2 and see how that fights the algae.
 
#17 ·
You will not combat this algae without reducing the light. As for the macro- and micro-nutrients, they also have to be in balance. Using two distinct fertilizers is in my view probably not providing what the plants actually need in terms of the correct amount of each macro- and micro-nutrient. One good comprehensive fertilizer is all that is necessary, unless you start dosing every nutrient individually; but getting these in the proper balance would be impossible for me and I suspect for you, so I would not go down that road. There are good balanced fertilizers available; Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive and Kent Freshwater Plant are two I have used with equal success.
Well I have Kent Marine Pro Plant Freshwater Plant Growth Accelerator. What confuses me is that the Nitrogen in that is 1% and only .15% in the other brand. The other brand is also Iron enriched which I think I need. The Kent says on the back label to use the Kent Marine Iron and Manganese fertilizer in conjuction with the Kent that I have. I guess I should purchase the same brand to maintain the proper balance of nutrients but I haven't yet seen a fertilizer that contains all these nutrients in one. Wow, the seachem site has convinced me that is the fertilizer I want to go with. I can always diagnose further problems and treat them later if need be. The nitrogen is even lower in the seachem, only .07%.

I have a chart in a library book of nutrient deficiencies and it sounds like it could be magnesium alghough it is unclear based on the description and what I have observed, I guess it could also be Potassium or as you said Iron. Interesting about the echinodorus, the leaf shape appears a bit different but could be from being young too. It looks like just some tips and edges of a few older leaves are brown and dead.
 
#18 ·
Well I have Kent Marine Pro Plant Freshwater Plant Growth Accelerator. What confuses me is that the Nitrogen in that is 1% and only .15% in the other brand. The other brand is also Iron enriched which I think I need. The Kent says on the back label to use the Kent Marine Iron and Manganese fertilizer in conjuction with the Kent that I have. I guess I should purchase the same brand to maintain the proper balance of nutrients but I haven't yet seen a fertilizer that contains all these nutrients in one. Wow, the seachem site has convinced me that is the fertilizer I want to go with. I can always diagnose further problems and treat them later if need be. The nitrogen is even lower in the seachem, only .07%.

I have a chart in a library book of nutrient deficiencies and it sounds like it could be magnesium alghough it is unclear based on the description and what I have observed, I guess it could also be Potassium or as you said Iron. Interesting about the echinodorus, the leaf shape appears a bit different but could be from being young too. It looks like just some tips and edges of a few older leaves are brown and dead.
Please pardon me for repeating myself, but you really have to be careful. Trying to guess a deficiency is more likely to result in overdosing something and causing more trouble. A balance is simply that, everything the plants need in the proper balance. I don't know what an Accelerator does, and as you noted something else should be used with it...they are trying to sell this stuff. I have always gone simple...obviously I know I need a fertilizer to provide the trace elements and macro-nutrients not in the tap water or not adequately supplied by the fish. Kent Freshwater Plant Supplement worked years ago, and currently I'm using the Flourish Comprehensive. I also have the Hagen Plant Gro sticks inserted next to the roots of the larger swords; and what a difference that made in three months. Swords are heavy feeders, but as you can see from the photos of my aquaria they are lush green and sending out flower spikes, so they are not missing iron or something else with the Flourish. And I'm saving money by not buying half a dozen things. I bought the largest size Flourish last October and it is not half gone yet; it was $49 (that's Canadian, it would be less in the US) but as it lasts more than a year, not too expensive for good plant growth in 2 large aquaria (soon to be 3).
 
#19 ·
green spot will be grazed by otos and SAE if they have nothing else. They can keep it under check if the growth is slow. I used to have a an entire side of my tank covered with ti but after i fixed the water parameters and the light times, i scraped it off and the algae eaters seem to do the rest. Only see it sporadically now.
 
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