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Added fish to the cycling with plants - How's this look?

6K views 44 replies 6 participants last post by  Byron 
#1 ·
Hello: This is a follow up post from earlier in the month....I've added plants, then a few fish, after a few days, added more fish and today finally added all the fish. There's about 20 small fish in the 55 gallon tank, with about 30 small (4" - 6") plants.
These are "beginner plants" and a couple of swords and sagataria along the back in a substrate of swimming pool sand.
The tag on the plants said "medium light".
I gave them fertilizer yesterday.
I just tested the water and the results are as follows:
Ph: 7.4
Nitrate 15
Nitrite 5
Ammonia 0
GH 100 ppm
KH 80 ppm
The light, a 32 watt T-8 8,000 K "aquarium lamp" is on for 12 hours a day.

My questions are:
Is the water chemistry ok? If not, what do I need to do?
The "aquarium lamp" seems to be a "one size fits all" type light....Is there a better one I should use?
I have a piece of African driftwood....I was told to soak it for a day before putitng it in the tank. Will any tannin leach out and discolor the water? If so, what can I do to prevent it?
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again
Never Quit
 
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#2 ·
Hello: This is a follow up post from earlier in the month....I've added plants, then a few fish, after a few days, added more fish and today finally added all the fish. There's about 20 small fish in the 55 gallon tank, with about 30 small (4" - 6") plants.
These are "beginner plants" and a couple of swords and sagataria along the back in a substrate of swimming pool sand.
The tag on the plants said "medium light".
I gave them fertilizer yesterday.
I just tested the water and the results are as follows:
Ph: 7.4
Nitrate 15
Nitrite 5
Ammonia 0
GH 100 ppm
KH 80 ppm
The light, a 32 watt T-8 8,000 K "aquarium lamp" is on for 12 hours a day.

My questions are:
Is the water chemistry ok? If not, what do I need to do?
The "aquarium lamp" seems to be a "one size fits all" type light....Is there a better one I should use?
I have a piece of African driftwood....I was told to soak it for a day before putitng it in the tank. Will any tannin leach out and discolor the water? If so, what can I do to prevent it?
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again
Never Quit
Everything sounds fine to me with exception of nitrite reading which must be zero to prevent harm to fishes.
I might perform 30 to 50 percent water change and see if nitrite reading does not improve.
Might consider root tabs under the sword plant's once a month, and weekly dose of liquid fertz.
 
#3 ·
Thanks. I didn't know if the nitrites were too high. I'll do a partial water change today. I tried to find table fertilizer but no one had any. Not that they were sold out, they just don't carry it! Is there a point of too much fertilizer? Are the root tabs designed to be used with the liquid?

Thanks
Never Quit
 
#4 ·
Your plants will grow better and use more of the fishes ammonia with a light rated around 6500k as this is around the optimum for most plants

There's not much you can do to prevent tannins leaching. Some woods have more than others - best way to find out is put in a bucket and see if the water become discoloured. If it does, you might want to leave it soaking in a bucket and change the water a few times to get rid of the worst of it before putting it in the tank. Tannins shouldn't harm the fish
 
#5 ·
Your plants will grow better and use more of the fishes ammonia with a light rated around 6500k as this is around the optimum for most plants

There's not much you can do to prevent tannins leaching. Some woods have more than others - best way to find out is put in a bucket and see if the water become discoloured. If it does, you might want to leave it soaking in a bucket and change the water a few times to get rid of the worst of it before putting it in the tank. Tannins shouldn't harm the fish
Thanks for the input. I've had the driftwood soaking, and hardly any water discoloration, so that's good. And, I need to see about a light with that temperature..

Had a misspelling: "I tried to find table fertilizer but no one had any." Should have read: "I tried to find TABLET fertilizer but no one had any." Not that it wasn't obvious, just wanted to be correct.



Thank you
Never Quit
 
#7 ·
From your info the fluorescent tube would appear to be a 48-inch so you can buy a good tube and be good with light. As was mentioned, a "daylight" type with around 6500K will work fine. Phillips and Sylvania make these and you can buy them for a few dollars (i.e., cheap) in a hardware store. Just make sure it is 6500K, Phillips calls theirs "Daylight Deluxe".

The nitrite [with the "i"] can't possibly be 5ppm or all the fish would be dead. If you meant 0.5 that is still bad and a 50% water change as 1077 suggested is essential.
 
#8 ·
I just finished ~ 50% water change and the nitrite reading now is 1 ppm. Yeah, I must have goofed in that reading yesterday. While 1 ppm is still high, I'll do another 50% water change tomorrow. My reasoning for waiting a day is would all that water changing in one day would be a stress on the fish. Or, is the nitrite level a bigger stress and should I do the change today?

Thanks for the bulb data, I'll see if Lowe's has one.

Never Quit
 
#9 ·
Nitrite at 1 ppm is usually fatal. At .25 it is affecting the fish internally. Water changes will not cause any harm.

What water conditioner are you using? One that detoxifies nitrite (and ammonia) such as Prime or Ultimate would be very advisable, as at least they would detoxify the nitrite for 24 hours so daily 50% partial water changes would be manageable.

After just an hour with high nitrite the fish are going to lose. Assuming your tests are accurate.
 
#10 ·
OK, thanks, I'll do another water change.....The only water conditioner I'm using is a dechlorinator. Now, if I add something that detoxifies the ammonia and/or nitrite am I stopping the cycling process?
I think your last sentence is the crux of the matter.....The accuracy of the test. I try and be as careful and as accurate as possible..However, the 0 ppm card color is significantly different from all the other colors (API test kit). Even the .25 to the .50 is different. Don't know what I'm doing wrong....Okay, what I'll do is take a sample of the water to the pet store and see what they get.

Thanks again
Never Quit
 
#11 ·
A water change can't hurt, whatever the nitrite may be, so this is good. Then get the store to confirm (or not) the nitrite. Test may have expired? If they confirm nitrite, a small bottle of Prime or Ultimate would be advisable, and no the cycling will not be adversely affected to any degree that causes trouble. Better to slow the cycling rather than kill the fish.
 
#12 ·
Took a water sample to the pet store. She got a 3.0 ppm nitrite reading! However, she was using the paper strips. I understand they're not that accurate but it verifies a high reading. I also got a bottle of Prime, It says it'll detoxify nitrite, nitrate and remove ammonia.
So I'll do a 50% water change then add the Prime.
Interestingly, the fish look okay....Are there any outward signs of nitrite poisoning?
Oh, and got the light bulb at Lowe's....

Thanks
Never Quit
 
#13 ·
With nitrite any where above 1ppm I would expect dead fish. Early signs are rapid respiration, red gills, lethargy, hanging at the surface gasping. This excerpt is from my article on bacteria:
Fish readily absorb nitrite from the water and it combines with the hemoglobin in their blood, forming methaemoglobin. As a consequence, the blood cannot transport oxygen as easily and this can become fatal. At 0.25 ppm nitrite begins to affect fish after a short period; at 0.5 ppm it becomes dangerous; and at 1.0 ppm it is often fatal.
Use the Prime as your water conditioner, enough for the volume changed, although it can be doubled in this case. Test nitrite tomorrow, and if still high do another 50% with Prime.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Thanks!
The fish look normal and just swimming around the tank, not even near the top. They don't show any signs of distress either, but that doesn't mean there aren't issues.
I'm doing a 50% change now and added 2x the dosage of Prime. I'll check the nitrite tomorrow morning.
With all water changing and such, is it safe to add a weekly plant fert feeding? I'm using Flourish comprehensive.
Thanks again for your help

Never Quit
 
#15 ·
I would not add Flourish Comp until this settles down. Prime detoxifies heavy metals, and five of these are nutrients in the fertilizer which would be rendered void so just wasted. And that means too much of others without these five.
 
#17 ·
I tested the water at 5 pm today and the resutls are:
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrate 10 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm

The fish all look okay, swimming around without any obvious distress.
Based on that analysis, what do you recommend I do?

Thanks
Never Quit
I had meant to contact Seachem about Prime, how it handles nitrite, I know it binds it somehow but I'd like it clarified. I'll send them a note momentarily.

One of my thoughts is that Prime may detoxify nitrite but it might still show in tests, similar to ammonia (which Prime detoxifies by binding into ammonium which is harmless but will still show on ammonia tests). But without knowing this for certain, prudence would suggest another water change. Or a dose of Prime, which i don't normally recommend as it is not a treatment, but if the water change is not possible this should suffice. But I would not repeat it. The partial water change clears the water, replacing it with fresh, always an advantage no matter what, so this is the better course.
 
#18 ·
I was kind of wondering about that.Why it still reported any trace of N compounds since I double dosed the tank! I certainly agree with you, I would much rather do a change of water than add more medicine.
OK, I'll do a 50% change now, ONLY use the dechlorinator then do an analysis tomorrow at 5.

Thanks for your help
Never Quit
 
#19 ·
I've sent an email to Seachem on Prime and nitrites. I have corresponded with them previously on issues, their scientific team is very good at providing information, so I'll report when I have something.
 
#20 ·
Thanks for looking into that. It will be interesting to read their response.
As I said, I changed 50% of the water last night, and only added dechlorinator.
Today the fish looked normal, no outward signs of stress.
The water test is as follows:
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Nitrate 5.0 ppm

What do you recommend I do? When can I start fertilizing the plants?

Thanks for your help

Never Quit
 
#21 ·
Thanks for looking into that. It will be interesting to read their response.
As I said, I changed 50% of the water last night, and only added dechlorinator.
Today the fish looked normal, no outward signs of stress.
The water test is as follows:
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Nitrate 5.0 ppm

What do you recommend I do? When can I start fertilizing the plants?

Thanks for your help

Never Quit
That nitrite is puzzling; is this with the API liquid test, or strips? I'd be inclined to let it go and check it tomorrow morning. Prime should be effective for 24-48 hours. I've not heard yet from Seachem, I emailed them early this morning.

There are two issues with using the Flourish. One is that Prime detoxifies some of it, but the other is that I would not want to add stuff to the water until this nitrite issue is resolved. I assume no other chemicals/substances are going in the water except Prime?
 
#22 ·
Yes, I'm using the API wet test kits NOT the paper strips.
I'll sample the water tomorrow morning and let you know.
That's correct, I've only added the Prime, dechlorinator and fertilizer but stopped that last week when these problems occurred.

Thanks again
Never Quit
 
#23 ·
This morning the fish looked fine, they were their normal aggressive behavior when fed, because I don't want to over feed them and just add to the problem. Besides there's plenty of plants they can munch on if they get too hungry.

The water chemistry results are as follows:
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Nitriate 5.0 ppm

The nitrites are not going down, but at least they're not going up!

Let me know what you think I should do.

Thanks
Never Quit
 
#24 ·
I wish I was there to observe the fish carefully. Nitrite is dangerous, but this is just not making sense. You have checked your tap water for nitrite, and nitrate?
 
#27 ·
I have a tap water test from 7/14/11, and the results are:

Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 5 ppm

I just did another tap water test a few minutes ago and the results are:

Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 0 ppm
The nitrite isn't coming from the tap water then. Nitrate may be though, as it seems to be variable.
 
#29 ·
This is difficult to advise on, since things are not "normal." But if you are getting nitrite above zero, and 2 days after the last water change with Prime, I would do another. Better safe than lose the fish.

As soon as Seachem get back to me, I'll post the data.
 
#31 ·
I did a 50% water change last night, then this morning checked the N compounds....The results are as follows:
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrates ~ 7 ppm The color was between the 5 and 10 on the card.
Nitrites 0 ppm! There's a huge color difference between 0 and .25 ppm....so there's no doubt it's 0.
So moving forward, can you recommend water chemistry ranges for the various tests? Should these be done weekly? When would it be safe to start fertilizing?

Thanks again for your followup

Never Quit
 
#33 ·
I did a 50% water change last night, then this morning checked the N compounds....The results are as follows:
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrates ~ 7 ppm The color was between the 5 and 10 on the card.
Nitrites 0 ppm! There's a huge color difference between 0 and .25 ppm....so there's no doubt it's 0.
So moving forward, can you recommend water chemistry ranges for the various tests? Should these be done weekly? When would it be safe to start fertilizing?

Thanks again for your followup

Never Quit
As there are plants, you should not see ammonia or nitrite again. And nitrate will remain low naturally. As you have the test kits, test away; they will be expired after a year or two. I never test for ammonia or nitrite, haven't for years, as I never have it with all my plants. I do spot check nitrate, it is always less than 5ppm. I monitor pH more often, but not weekly.

The Flourish Comp can be used on the day following the last water change using Prime. The only reason here is that Prime (and many other conditioners) detoxify heavy metals, which are nutrients, and they negate those minerals in Flourish. But waiting a day gets around that, as Prime is only effective for 24 hours or thereabouts, according to Seachem. I asked them specifically on this issue of Prime/Flourish.
 
#32 ·
Ammonia and Nitrites should be 0ppm.

Nitrates should be less than 40ppm, most say under 20ppm is better.

If the tank is new and likely to be still cycling daily, or every other day. If it's new but not cycling weekly. As time goes on and you get to know the tank you might cut back on the weekly.

I check with every water change.
 
#36 ·
I don't know of any "formula" for KH/pH relationship, other than the higher the KH the less the pH will change. Might be better to ask what pH you "want" in the tank. And what is the KH of the tap water?
 
#38 ·
I have another question: I'm in the process of setting up a 70 gallon tank (this thread was dealing with a 55). I'll use the same procedure for setting it up. The difference is the hood has two lights. They're both 48" 32 watt "daylight" wavelength as you recommeneded....My question is what type of plants should I get OR NOT get for this tank? On my 55 I bought an assortment with no regard for the light level...They seem to be doing well too. But with two lights, do I need to exclude "low light" or other plants?

Thanks

Never Quit
 
#40 ·
I have another question: I'm in the process of setting up a 70 gallon tank (this thread was dealing with a 55). I'll use the same procedure for setting it up. The difference is the hood has two lights. They're both 48" 32 watt "daylight" wavelength as you recommeneded....My question is what type of plants should I get OR NOT get for this tank? On my 55 I bought an assortment with no regard for the light level...They seem to be doing well too. But with two lights, do I need to exclude "low light" or other plants?

Thanks

Never Quit
Most aquarium plants will manage in moderate light. There are a few that tend to require higher light, and usually more nutrients and CO2. Low light plants like Anubias will be fine in a "shady" spot, such as overshadowed by large swords, floating plants, etc. Anubias is useful in rear corners for this reason. Crypts tend to adjust, but do not like changes once settled, or they tend to melt. Java Fern I have found similar.

In a 70g, swords are ideal, several of the Echinodorus species, some are in our profiles. Pygmy chain sword for mid- to front. Aponogeton should work, and Vallisneria [Corkscrew Vallisneria is nice], Sagittaria. Stem plants will be easier, but I find they still do not do well without more light. Brazilian Pennywort is an exception. But my Wisteria and Hygrophila corymbosa do not do well, I suspect due to the light. Once I find plants that will grow in my conditions, I stick with them. The fish are prime, not the plants, so the latter have to be suitable to the former.
 
#44 ·
That was interesting! Thanks for enlightening me on the fluctuations of pH.

Thanks, you just can't get this kind of information from your local pet store...At least that's been my experience! Instead of explaining the process, like you did, The pet shop person just says "Here, buy this, it will stabilize your Ph."

Never Quit
 
#45 ·
And sadly, using those concoctions (which sometimes don't work due to the chemistry) often stresses out the fish terribly, weakening their immune systems, so then you have ich and more chemicals go into the tank... you get the idea.;-) Natural is always the best course; let nature do what it does best.
 
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